Official GS-F discussion
09-06-13, 02:24 PM
#511
Guest
Posts: n/a
UHHH, Lexus sold a 375k car in an area few participate in. The 100k LS 600h L was the first Japanese car to break the 100k barrier and it sold like hotcakes initially. The old SC 430 was 65k 10 years ago and they sold out the first few years.
Lexus continues to go up in price and so are sales. So they do have the brand image to sell there. Every report asking the opinion of millionaires shows they regard Lexus as one of the top 3 Luxury brands every year. So people with money will pay for a Lexus.
Our GS F-sport was 62k with options. That was unheard of for a GS before and it doesn't even have a V-8 and we are happy. Tons of people here are the same way.
The LS continues to sell as the price has climbed to the 80/90k mark easily with options.
I think the big issue is Lexus is NOT selling in these areas. The IS F was NOT cheaper than the M3 or C63 base price for base price and was more expensive depending on options and people bought it.
Lexus needs to make desirable cars and people will buy them, no matter the price. Its not like these M5s, E63s are flying off lots either, a simple search finds tons of them for sale with discounts.
Speaking of, was looking at the new 2014 E63 and its a 105k-116k car!!! Wow
Lexus continues to go up in price and so are sales. So they do have the brand image to sell there. Every report asking the opinion of millionaires shows they regard Lexus as one of the top 3 Luxury brands every year. So people with money will pay for a Lexus.
Our GS F-sport was 62k with options. That was unheard of for a GS before and it doesn't even have a V-8 and we are happy. Tons of people here are the same way.
The LS continues to sell as the price has climbed to the 80/90k mark easily with options.
I think the big issue is Lexus is NOT selling in these areas. The IS F was NOT cheaper than the M3 or C63 base price for base price and was more expensive depending on options and people bought it.
Lexus needs to make desirable cars and people will buy them, no matter the price. Its not like these M5s, E63s are flying off lots either, a simple search finds tons of them for sale with discounts.
Speaking of, was looking at the new 2014 E63 and its a 105k-116k car!!! Wow
09-06-13, 02:26 PM
#512
Is very simple, Lexus simply don't have enough brand image to sell a $100k E63/M5 competitor. But Lexus is high enough to sell a $65k M3 competitor.
Every company knows how high their brand image is and what they can sell, there are tons of example:
Jag XJR, Audi S8 are AMG S63's competitor, but they simply offer less for less. BMW don't even bother making a M7 to compete.
Gallardo vs. 12C vs. 458: Same class, different level, different price.
Genesis sedan vs. Lexus GS
It even apply at the top, LaFerrari, 918 and P1 all have different price point, HP and equipment levels. Porsche and McLaren just knows they can't hang with Ferrari as far as image goes.
There are tons of examples at all levels that where they are clearly in the same class, but they offer different level of equipments for different price.
Every company knows how high their brand image is and what they can sell, there are tons of example:
Jag XJR, Audi S8 are AMG S63's competitor, but they simply offer less for less. BMW don't even bother making a M7 to compete.
Gallardo vs. 12C vs. 458: Same class, different level, different price.
Genesis sedan vs. Lexus GS
It even apply at the top, LaFerrari, 918 and P1 all have different price point, HP and equipment levels. Porsche and McLaren just knows they can't hang with Ferrari as far as image goes.
There are tons of examples at all levels that where they are clearly in the same class, but they offer different level of equipments for different price.
09-06-13, 02:44 PM
#513
UHHH, Lexus sold a 375k car in an area few participate in. The 100k LS 600h L was the first Japanese car to break the 100k barrier and it sold like hotcakes initially. The old SC 430 was 65k 10 years ago and they sold out the first few years.
Lexus continues to go up in price and so are sales. So they do have the brand image to sell there. Every report asking the opinion of millionaires shows they regard Lexus as one of the top 3 Luxury brands every year. So people with money will pay for a Lexus.
Our GS F-sport was 62k with options. That was unheard of for a GS before and it doesn't even have a V-8 and we are happy. Tons of people here are the same way.
The LS continues to sell as the price has climbed to the 80/90k mark easily with options.
I think the big issue is Lexus is NOT selling in these areas. The IS F was NOT cheaper than the M3 or C63 base price for base price and was more expensive depending on options and people bought it.
Lexus needs to make desirable cars and people will buy them, no matter the price. Its not like these M5s, E63s are flying off lots either, a simple search finds tons of them for sale with discounts.
Speaking of, was looking at the new 2014 E63 and its a 105k-116k car!!! Wow
Lexus continues to go up in price and so are sales. So they do have the brand image to sell there. Every report asking the opinion of millionaires shows they regard Lexus as one of the top 3 Luxury brands every year. So people with money will pay for a Lexus.
Our GS F-sport was 62k with options. That was unheard of for a GS before and it doesn't even have a V-8 and we are happy. Tons of people here are the same way.
The LS continues to sell as the price has climbed to the 80/90k mark easily with options.
I think the big issue is Lexus is NOT selling in these areas. The IS F was NOT cheaper than the M3 or C63 base price for base price and was more expensive depending on options and people bought it.
Lexus needs to make desirable cars and people will buy them, no matter the price. Its not like these M5s, E63s are flying off lots either, a simple search finds tons of them for sale with discounts.
Speaking of, was looking at the new 2014 E63 and its a 105k-116k car!!! Wow
09-06-13, 02:50 PM
#514
Same idea, in the same class but offer less for less price with a Japanese badge. That is what you have to do as an underdog. The LFA is an once in 40 years exception (2000GT), the next time that will happen will be 2050.
Last edited by BNR34; 09-06-13 at 03:22 PM.
09-06-13, 03:14 PM
#515
Guest
Posts: n/a
The $125k LF-LC is design to compete with $150k+ Euros, AMG SL63, BMW i8, Audi R8, Aston Martin Vantage.
Same idea, offer less for less price with a Japanese badge. That is what you have to do as an underdog. The LFA is an once in 40 years exception (2000GT), the next time that will happen will be 2050.
Same idea, offer less for less price with a Japanese badge. That is what you have to do as an underdog. The LFA is an once in 40 years exception (2000GT), the next time that will happen will be 2050.
09-06-13, 03:21 PM
#516
Driver
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i didn't say it's just as easy, but at the same time is that the excuse now?
i have said it many times and i will say it again. i am not against the idea of a 460hp gs. for crying out loud since day ONE i have been saying that the gs NEEDS a v8. absolutely zero problem on that. but with the gsf badge? when it's clear how isf and rcf (and thus the f badge) is positioned to be m and amg fighter? and now the new reasoning that "lexus is doing their own thing and no need to compete with bmw and mb"? i guess it's a lot to figure out first isn't it?
lfa proved a huge point for lexus, no doubt. however anyone who is remotely trying to compare the lfa market to that of isf, rcf, gsf (vs m3/4/5 and c63/e63) really has little idea on how these markets work. one is supercar where it's about showcasing different aspects of technology (whether people like it or not is another story), one is a huge mass production by comparison where audience are mostly about status rather than driving.
so again, i have no problem with a v8 gs, i was probably one of the first few to cry and whine for one. but with the f badge? maybe we should go back and try to figure out what lexus is trying to define f as. simply something that's more sporty and more "fiji speedway" as some start to perceive here? or actually something to fight against m and amg (demonstrated by isf and rcf) to boost brand recognition in sport (which btw is what lexus has been focusing)?
i have said it many times and i will say it again. i am not against the idea of a 460hp gs. for crying out loud since day ONE i have been saying that the gs NEEDS a v8. absolutely zero problem on that. but with the gsf badge? when it's clear how isf and rcf (and thus the f badge) is positioned to be m and amg fighter? and now the new reasoning that "lexus is doing their own thing and no need to compete with bmw and mb"? i guess it's a lot to figure out first isn't it?
lfa proved a huge point for lexus, no doubt. however anyone who is remotely trying to compare the lfa market to that of isf, rcf, gsf (vs m3/4/5 and c63/e63) really has little idea on how these markets work. one is supercar where it's about showcasing different aspects of technology (whether people like it or not is another story), one is a huge mass production by comparison where audience are mostly about status rather than driving.
so again, i have no problem with a v8 gs, i was probably one of the first few to cry and whine for one. but with the f badge? maybe we should go back and try to figure out what lexus is trying to define f as. simply something that's more sporty and more "fiji speedway" as some start to perceive here? or actually something to fight against m and amg (demonstrated by isf and rcf) to boost brand recognition in sport (which btw is what lexus has been focusing)?
09-06-13, 03:25 PM
#517
what's there to figure out? F models are the highest performance trim of that model. as long as the GSF is a higher performance model than the GS350 F Sport, the F badge makes total sense. its the people that skew what F means. they try to define F in their terms and not lexus' terms. who said F has to battle M, RS, and AMG?
09-07-13, 12:23 AM
#519
what's there to figure out? F models are the highest performance trim of that model. as long as the GSF is a higher performance model than the GS350 F Sport, the F badge makes total sense. its the people that skew what F means. they try to define F in their terms and not lexus' terms. who said F has to battle M, RS, and AMG?
http://www.leftlanenews.com/lexus-to...val-amg-m.html
"The series will compete with BMW's "M" line and Mercedes' AMG."
http://www.thecarconnection.com/tips...-second-hybrid
"...Toyota division may also launch a high-performance brand-within-a-brand, along the lines of the Mercedes-Benz AMG series and Cadillac’s new V series. “It is being seriously studied,” Lexus General Manager Denny Clements told TheCarConnection.com. He quickly added that, “I’m not telling you we’re going to do it,” though Clements stressed that he is “absolutely” in favor of the idea. “We need to have a flagship in every segment, like AMG.”
who skew what?
for the past 5 years, lexus has been doing so much on the isf to go against the m3 and c63. let's not back pedal now and say that's not their intention.
The $125k LF-LC is design to compete with $150k+ Euros, AMG SL63, BMW i8, Audi R8, Aston Martin Vantage.
Same idea, in the same class but offer less for less price with a Japanese badge. That is what you have to do as an underdog. The LFA is an once in 40 years exception (2000GT), the next time that will happen will be 2050.
Same idea, in the same class but offer less for less price with a Japanese badge. That is what you have to do as an underdog. The LFA is an once in 40 years exception (2000GT), the next time that will happen will be 2050.
09-07-13, 12:48 PM
#520
Lexus Champion
romini is right on the money on this one.
If it has less than 500 HP, then it's alright to call it a GS460 F-sport or GS500 F-sport.
But to claim this as a full-fledged GS-F with output below 500 horses and tell the Germans as well as the Jaguar XF-R to go "****** themselves" seems overstitching a bit.
Also:
Umm...........
Toyota group is no stranger to keeping up with performance standards. The scientists and engineers working within the Toyota group are just as intelligent, competent and capable as those from BMW M or MB AMG or the Jaguar R division or whatever.
Take the TRD group for example (which is a Toyota/Lexus performance division). They have numerous supercharger modules that they've been making for YEARS now. Heck, slap any of their superchargers to any UR SERIES ENGINE and we wouldn't be having this debate at all.
Also, some of you keep commenting that the price will go up to the level of M5, E63 AMG and whatnot.
Err.........I don't mean to be offensive.........but this is a PREMIUM VEHICLE SEGMENT. More specifically, this is a PREMIUM PERFORMANCE VEHICLE SEGMENT. Hence imho, cost IS NOT and SHOULD NOT be an issue.
If you're worried about cost/fuel economy/vehicle price and whatnot, then simply drive a Corolla or a Yaris.
Or take public transportation
OR WALK (it doesn't cost money to move one's limbs and one's ***)
Just my opinion.......
If it has less than 500 HP, then it's alright to call it a GS460 F-sport or GS500 F-sport.
But to claim this as a full-fledged GS-F with output below 500 horses and tell the Germans as well as the Jaguar XF-R to go "****** themselves" seems overstitching a bit.
Also:
Originally Posted by BNR34
Quote on how ISF/M3 competitor is easier to make, M5 segment is a whole other level
Toyota group is no stranger to keeping up with performance standards. The scientists and engineers working within the Toyota group are just as intelligent, competent and capable as those from BMW M or MB AMG or the Jaguar R division or whatever.
Take the TRD group for example (which is a Toyota/Lexus performance division). They have numerous supercharger modules that they've been making for YEARS now. Heck, slap any of their superchargers to any UR SERIES ENGINE and we wouldn't be having this debate at all.
Also, some of you keep commenting that the price will go up to the level of M5, E63 AMG and whatnot.
Err.........I don't mean to be offensive.........but this is a PREMIUM VEHICLE SEGMENT. More specifically, this is a PREMIUM PERFORMANCE VEHICLE SEGMENT. Hence imho, cost IS NOT and SHOULD NOT be an issue.
If you're worried about cost/fuel economy/vehicle price and whatnot, then simply drive a Corolla or a Yaris.
Or take public transportation
OR WALK (it doesn't cost money to move one's limbs and one's ***)
Just my opinion.......
09-07-13, 06:51 PM
#521
Exactly. It will be laughed and criticized at if Lexus tries to break into the premium performance vehicle segment with only 460 HP for the GS-F, when the M5/E63/RS6/XFR-S all have 550+ HP. Playing it safe and saying it's good enough ain't cutting it, if that's the case call it the GS460 F-Sport. Either way, I'm ecstatic for the 4GS to finally getting a V8.
09-07-13, 10:37 PM
#523
Lexus Test Driver
The New GS F Spied
Here is a pic of it the new GS F, it looks its on steroids.
this is a cool web, Houseofjapan.com and click on Lexus.
http://www.houseofjapan.com/auto-mot...rototype-spied
this is a cool web, Houseofjapan.com and click on Lexus.
http://www.houseofjapan.com/auto-mot...rototype-spied
