sydtoosic

looks like there's a roll cage in there.

SW17LS

I gotta agree with everybody. If Lexus is really going to create an "F" line that competes with M, AMG, etc (which they have said is their intention), then the car needs to offer the sort of power and amenities those cars offer for less money. Less car for less money is a completely different ballgame, people at that level have the money, the only way they will buy into the value proposition of the GS-F is if it gets them the performance and amenities the competitors offer...or better...for more value.

Building a GS-F with less than 500HP in this market is just an exercise, the car's not going to sell, at least not to people who truly are looking at an M5 or a E63. Do they want to compete with those vehicles or a Genesis R-Spec?

jtrue28

That's a mule. Just like they used a 3GS mule to plan for the 4GS.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

You are right, I said that wrong. I must have thinking of what Lexus is possibly doing with the GS-F, less performance for less money.

But you are right, in the past, Lexus typically offer comparable or more vehicles for less money.

GSthe4th

iTrader: (1)

I decided to do a really quick search on the HP history of the M5. Just food for thought, and I am sure many of you may think this is a mute point; but, the M5 was technically introduced in 1985 and did not reach 500 HP until 2005 production of the E60 (V-10). I do agree with all of you that say a GSF SHOULD have the performance numbers of the sedans it plans to compete with, but I just wanted provide some possible perspective along the timeline. Yes, I do recognize that we will be in 2014/2015 before the GSF could be released--technology. Just saying, it took 20 years for the M5. What do we expect the GSF to have as their target max HP with subsequent models/gens?

NewSpace

Let's not forget that Lexus won't put out a vehicle that doesn't live up to its highest standards for reliability as well as performance.

I say a 500hp vehicle that can also run flawlessly for 200K miles is an engineering feat that the BMW can't match.

praetor

The # 1 reason why there isn't a 500HP Lexus GSF is probably because it wouldn't sell. I read that in 2012, Lexus sold a mere 486 ISFs. Yeah, they're not going to lose money on a 500HP GSF.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

The Lexus LFA, at 552 HP didn't have the same amount of HP as other supercars selling in the same price point. People still bought it.

One would argue, at 375,000 USD, you'd think that a Lexus would offer MORE HP to entice buyers...uh nah...

Lexus has proven about 3 times already (LFA, GS, IS) that once you get into one of their performance cars, horsepower isn't what puts the pen on the paper, its the driving experience.

LexFather

In regards to the IS F it sold I think over 12,000 copies in its lifetime which is pretty solid for a first entry not just from Lexus but any brand from Asia. That is historically all M3/C63 etc territory.

Yup...now the 3IS is winning rave reviews though its slower than the 335.....

MjThind

Is it me or is it cars that don't sell well at's there time of production are often the most desirable when it comes to classics?

madfast

its been explained already. the ISF and soon the RCF can compete with the M3/M4 because its relatively easy to do so in that segment. a 600hp GSF requires a twin turbo V8 that lexus simply doesnt have. dont forget the S63 originally debuted in the X5M/X6M. they further developed it for the M5/M6. where is lexus going to whip out a 600hp twin turbo V8? are we supposed to believe it exists behind closed doors and lexus is waiting to unveil it? are we supposed to believe the TMG TS-650 engine is production ready? you guys can keep dreaming.

instead i think they will release the GSF as a car in the same vein as the E60 M5. a 460hp NA V8 in the superb GS chassis would be a great car in its own right. the new M5 hasnt exactly set the world on fire. why not make the GSF like the old M5? such a car wont win drag races but it could be a winner for being a total package. makes total sense in every way.

tmf2004

iTrader: (15)

exactly, I'd rather sacrifice some HP for better reliability which we all know Lexus is known for..

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Not necessarily, it depends on many factors.

praetor

12,000 copies but 486 cars for all of 2012. For a car that's selling at $60K a pop, that's just not sustainable. For all it's accomplishments, Lexus still suffers from the Supra and Skyline syndrome. Lack of prestige. Lexus is still viewed by many as just a fancy Toyota.

Blackraven

Except that the LFA didn't have a competitor at that time............or at least it didn't have a direct competitor.

The LFA however was *indirectly* compared to a varierty of supercars ranging from the Nissan GT-R to Porsche 911s all the way up to Ferraris and Mclarens and even in some cases the Lambo Aventador.

Regardless of any outcome, the LFA stood out in a class of its own.

In the case of the GS-F however, there is *direct* competition (regardless if Lexus themselves state so or if the general public perceives it).

It is being pitted against the likes of the M5, E63 AMG, Audi RS6/RS7 as well as the Jaguar XF-R.

And all those above vehicles have one thing in common.............

I mean don't get me wrong. I am excited that *finally* a 4GS with a V8 engine is coming and we ALL love to hear that.

BUT

to call it a "GS-F" yet only having less than 500 HP seems absurd.

Hence if that would be the case, then why not just call it a "GS 500 F-sport" then?

We're not exactly asking for 600 hp.

Rather, we're asking that the car should have AT LEAST 500 HP.

I mean sure some of us here may want something like 550 HP or 560 HP (M5-matching specs and whatnot)..............but for most of us, 500 HP MINIMUM will suffice.

In fact:
500 HP (minimum) + LIGHTER WEIGHT = ALL THAT A GS-F WOULD NEED

Also, as natnut said:
Toyota Group is NO STRANGER TO FORCED INDUCTION.

The TRD division has been making superchargers and turbochargers FOR YEARS NOW.

It depends how you interpret it.

A few may agree with you on that...........though many would stay that it has done so.

Regardless of that, one thing is for sure: THIS VEHICLE SEGMENT IS ON FIRE.......

The level of competition here is tough.

The only way to be part of that league is to have the one thing that all vehicles in that specific segment have and that is 500 HP minimum.

Otherwise, if Lexus fails on that aspect, then they would have to look at a lower performance segment:

1) Chevrolet SS
2) Chrysler 300C SRT8

or