I still can't believe the 4GS will not have a V8 option!
10-19-11, 04:37 PM
#76
i guess in the end it depends on where the gsf is. if it is a 100k car (or say 90), i am not sure it's something those people planning to pay 60k would be willing to bump up to. even at 80k it's still a stretch for most. if the car is 70k, adversely i doubt it's something that will come close to m5 and e63 at all.
you see similar things on 550i/m5 and e550/e63 as well. they are good 30k apart in most cases? i don't see a lot of people cross shop between those
you see similar things on 550i/m5 and e550/e63 as well. they are good 30k apart in most cases? i don't see a lot of people cross shop between those
10-19-11, 05:51 PM
#77
Lexus Champion
i guess in the end it depends on where the gsf is. if it is a 100k car (or say 90), i am not sure it's something those people planning to pay 60k would be willing to bump up to. even at 80k it's still a stretch for most. if the car is 70k, adversely i doubt it's something that will come close to m5 and e63 at all.
you see similar things on 550i/m5 and e550/e63 as well. they are good 30k apart in most cases? i don't see a lot of people cross shop between those
you see similar things on 550i/m5 and e550/e63 as well. they are good 30k apart in most cases? i don't see a lot of people cross shop between those
10-19-11, 06:27 PM
#78
if that's what lexus think, i think they are quite silly to think that the gs will derail the sales of ls. do you see 550i taking away numbers from 750i? how about e550 on the s550? i don't think i have seen hard numbers on that. before you say it, i can tell you those models don't change generation in the same MY.
gs and ls are very different cars. back in early 2000s, there were gs400 and ls400. and then gs430 and ls430. i simply don't see real buyers seriously cross ship between the two. they are so different in terms of driving, comfort, and amenities. those who like the gs, they think the ls is boring and numb. those who want the ls, they think the gs is loud and harsh.
gs and ls are very different cars. back in early 2000s, there were gs400 and ls400. and then gs430 and ls430. i simply don't see real buyers seriously cross ship between the two. they are so different in terms of driving, comfort, and amenities. those who like the gs, they think the ls is boring and numb. those who want the ls, they think the gs is loud and harsh.
10-19-11, 06:40 PM
#79
Lexus Champion
if that's what lexus think, i think they are quite silly to think that the gs will derail the sales of ls. do you see 550i taking away numbers from 750i? how about e550 on the s550? i don't think i have seen hard numbers on that. before you say it, i can tell you those models don't change generation in the same MY.
gs and ls are very different cars. back in early 2000s, there were gs400 and ls400. and then gs430 and ls430. i simply don't see real buyers seriously cross ship between the two. they are so different in terms of driving, comfort, and amenities. those who like the gs, they think the ls is boring and numb. those who want the ls, they think the gs is loud and harsh.
gs and ls are very different cars. back in early 2000s, there were gs400 and ls400. and then gs430 and ls430. i simply don't see real buyers seriously cross ship between the two. they are so different in terms of driving, comfort, and amenities. those who like the gs, they think the ls is boring and numb. those who want the ls, they think the gs is loud and harsh.
I don't expect the 4GS to steal sales from the next generation LS, but with the current model it's not hard to see that as a possibility considering how much improved the 4GS is over the outgoing model.
10-19-11, 11:54 PM
#80
According to this guy they expect it. The new E-class was not as good or better inside or have significantly better technology than the 6 year old S-class. The 550i came out after the new 7 series, same with the A6 which came out after the A8.
I don't expect the 4GS to steal sales from the next generation LS, but with the current model it's not hard to see that as a possibility considering how much improved the 4GS is over the outgoing model.
I don't expect the 4GS to steal sales from the next generation LS, but with the current model it's not hard to see that as a possibility considering how much improved the 4GS is over the outgoing model.
like i said, if that's what lexus think, i can only laugh. shoppers don't just look at technology and call it a day, there are a lot of other aspect. i shopped for ls460l, i didn't consider the gs at all. when i shopped for my gs350, i didn't think one bit about ls, s, 7.
and in the end if that's really the reason? they should rearrange how the models are scheduled to announce. what they doing now is simply putting down the gs lineup
and regarding the thread by the other member? i read about it and actually thought. if they already think the gs will take away ls owners and thus delaying the new ls by another year, that means that the new ls will be even better than the 4gs, making that even more superior. with all that said and the plan in place, why the hell not make the gs a v8 now as well so they are able to convert more ls owners to gs, and then later on shock them with the new ls? logically it doesn't seem to fit well, especially if they decide to stretch out the ls to give "room" to the gs.
Last edited by rominl; 10-19-11 at 11:58 PM.
10-20-11, 01:57 AM
#81
we heard that when they put out the 3gs in 05 too. they had the gs430. did we see threat on the ls430 back then? i don't recall. when they released the gs400 back in 1998, did it affect the sales of ls400 given how similar the two cars are technology wise?
like i said, if that's what lexus think, i can only laugh. shoppers don't just look at technology and call it a day, there are a lot of other aspect. i shopped for ls460l, i didn't consider the gs at all. when i shopped for my gs350, i didn't think one bit about ls, s, 7.
and in the end if that's really the reason? they should rearrange how the models are scheduled to announce. what they doing now is simply putting down the gs lineup
and regarding the thread by the other member? i read about it and actually thought. if they already think the gs will take away ls owners and thus delaying the new ls by another year, that means that the new ls will be even better than the 4gs, making that even more superior. with all that said and the plan in place, why the hell not make the gs a v8 now as well so they are able to convert more ls owners to gs, and then later on shock them with the new ls? logically it doesn't seem to fit well, especially if they decide to stretch out the ls to give "room" to the gs.
like i said, if that's what lexus think, i can only laugh. shoppers don't just look at technology and call it a day, there are a lot of other aspect. i shopped for ls460l, i didn't consider the gs at all. when i shopped for my gs350, i didn't think one bit about ls, s, 7.
and in the end if that's really the reason? they should rearrange how the models are scheduled to announce. what they doing now is simply putting down the gs lineup
and regarding the thread by the other member? i read about it and actually thought. if they already think the gs will take away ls owners and thus delaying the new ls by another year, that means that the new ls will be even better than the 4gs, making that even more superior. with all that said and the plan in place, why the hell not make the gs a v8 now as well so they are able to convert more ls owners to gs, and then later on shock them with the new ls? logically it doesn't seem to fit well, especially if they decide to stretch out the ls to give "room" to the gs.
When I was shopping for my 550i, I also briefly considered the 750i. However after a test drive, while the 750i was very good, it was such a different car that it was obvious I did not want it. I wanted the engine, the tech and the luxury of the 750i without the size and weight. And that's what I got with the 550i. Most people want one or the other, the cannibalization risk is small.
10-21-11, 01:59 PM
#84
Hyundai is more like the Toyota of 1989 - they don't care if the V8 genesis is profitable in the next 5 years, they are playing a long game. It's a shame Lexus doesn't do that, we believe in them, but they don't seem to believe in themselves.
Meanwhile BMW and Mercedes offer not just 1 but 4 V8 sedans in this size/weight category E550, E63, CLS550 and CLS63, and BMW is adding to the 550i and M5, 650i and M6 Grancoupe sedans.
10-24-11, 07:53 AM
#85
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
i agree that lexus not having a V8 in the GS is a big mistake, and if the reason is because it might hurt LS sales, well that just shows the LS is vulnerable in general, which it is. this weekend i saw a new 750i, and wow, what presence. i like the LS, but it's not in the same league as 7 series or S class. but then, it's a lot cheaper too. but when some on here like to put down hyundai as junk and not in the same league as lexus, they forget that lexus really isn't in the same league as bmw and mercedes, and no, sales numbers don't make the case.
back to the V8, there's something special about a V8 - the quiet, effortless and incredibly smooth engine, that i've yet to see any v6/i6 come close to. sure the GS450h drivetrain is also incredibly smooth, but also incredibly complex, expensive, heavy, and trunk-space eating. i also personally don't like the extra 'glitz' that lexus puts on hybrid models - just make it very subtle - if it's your flagship, fine, but we don't need blue h's or "HYBRID" labels on the car.
back to the V8, there's something special about a V8 - the quiet, effortless and incredibly smooth engine, that i've yet to see any v6/i6 come close to. sure the GS450h drivetrain is also incredibly smooth, but also incredibly complex, expensive, heavy, and trunk-space eating. i also personally don't like the extra 'glitz' that lexus puts on hybrid models - just make it very subtle - if it's your flagship, fine, but we don't need blue h's or "HYBRID" labels on the car.
10-24-11, 01:00 PM
#86
Guest
Posts: n/a
I am starting to think some of you write for MT or C&D with these responses. 
Sorry but some of you are mixing now bashing Lexus & the GS and are all over the map here. We can all agree not having a GS 460/500 is a mistake. Some of this other commentary is head scratching to me.
Sorry but some of you are mixing now bashing Lexus & the GS and are all over the map here. We can all agree not having a GS 460/500 is a mistake. Some of this other commentary is head scratching to me.
10-24-11, 01:42 PM
#87
I am starting to think some of you write for MT or C&D with these responses. Sorry but some of you are mixing now bashing Lexus & the GS and are all over the map here. We can all agree not having a GS 460/500 is a mistake. Some of this other commentary is head scratching to me.
Sorry but some of you are mixing now bashing Lexus & the GS and are all over the map here. We can all agree not having a GS 460/500 is a mistake. Some of this other commentary is head scratching to me.
10-24-11, 03:15 PM
#88
Lexus Champion
i agree that lexus not having a V8 in the GS is a big mistake, and if the reason is because it might hurt LS sales, well that just shows the LS is vulnerable in general, which it is. this weekend i saw a new 750i, and wow, what presence. i like the LS, but it's not in the same league as 7 series or S class. but then, it's a lot cheaper too. but when some on here like to put down hyundai as junk and not in the same league as lexus, they forget that lexus really isn't in the same league as bmw and mercedes, and no, sales numbers don't make the case.
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If you could equip the LS460 with the LS600hL LED headlamps the look would be perfect. Absolutely beautiful car, park it next to the Merc or even the 7 and I'm sure it will have no trouble standing out.
But the LS is certainly vulnerable in many ways. For example the technology and infotainment system inside is outdated compared to the 4GS. The dash is still soft touch plastic unlike leather in the GS, and of course it's a slightly older body style (though it has aged remarkably well IMO, along side the 2IS) which means things like lighting aren't as fashionable (no LED DRL, or LED headlights as option).
Last edited by Mr. Burns; 10-24-11 at 03:26 PM.
10-24-11, 05:24 PM
#89
The new 7 has presence (thanks in large part to huge thick tires) but IMO that's where it ends with the Germans. I think you're selling the LS short. In my neighborhood there is a guy who has a black loaded S550 and another guy who has a beautiful white LS460 and for me there is simply no competition. The LS not only looks a generation newer than the Merc but down to how the paint gleams in the sun it's executed much better. It also has tons of presence going down the road and while I see the Merc from time to time it's the LS that I really enjoy seeing. The Merc also doesn't look anywhere near $30k+ more expensive, if at all.
If you could equip the LS460 with the LS600hL LED headlamps the look would be perfect. Absolutely beautiful car, park it next to the Merc or even the 7 and I'm sure it will have no trouble standing out.
But the LS is certainly vulnerable in many ways. For example the technology and infotainment system inside is outdated compared to the 4GS. The dash is still soft touch plastic unlike leather in the GS, and of course it's a slightly older body style (though it has aged remarkably well IMO, along side the 2IS) which means things like lighting aren't as fashionable (no LED DRL, or LED headlights as option).
If you could equip the LS460 with the LS600hL LED headlamps the look would be perfect. Absolutely beautiful car, park it next to the Merc or even the 7 and I'm sure it will have no trouble standing out.
But the LS is certainly vulnerable in many ways. For example the technology and infotainment system inside is outdated compared to the 4GS. The dash is still soft touch plastic unlike leather in the GS, and of course it's a slightly older body style (though it has aged remarkably well IMO, along side the 2IS) which means things like lighting aren't as fashionable (no LED DRL, or LED headlights as option).
10-24-11, 09:38 PM
#90
Guest
Posts: n/a
I love the 7 series but I cannot agree with Paul that a car that looks just like the 5/3 any series suddenly has huge presence. To me the S-class has it in spades. I confuse the 7 all the time sadly.
Then we get the usual "Hyundai 1989" statements which is ridiculous b/c its not even close.
I 100% agree the GS should have a GS 460/500 and be around 400hp at this point and this is pretty gotdamn INEXCUSABLE to me. Lexus, I don't want to hear it. This is what you learned with the first generation and what the Germans offer. I am hugely disappointed there is no V-8 offering.
Every time I think about it I want to chuck my computer.