Lexus to Reveal All-New 2013 GS 350 with F SPORT Package at 2011 SEMA Show
10-27-11, 08:29 AM
#76
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Interesting that nobody has mentioned how Mercedes has removed front foglights from their models over the last couple years. As of the 2012 model year not a single US Mercedes model has front fogs. Those LED strips Mercedes has been putting in the front bumper area are NOT foglamps.
10-27-11, 09:24 AM
#77
Lexus Connoisseur
Thread Starter
Interesting that nobody has mentioned how Mercedes has removed front foglights from their models over the last couple years. As of the 2012 model year not a single US Mercedes model has front fogs. Those LED strips Mercedes has been putting in the front bumper area are NOT foglamps.
10-27-11, 10:48 AM
#78
Lexus Champion
I still disagree mate.
Unless you can convince me that HID has enough ability to penetrate through fog cover, then I would not be convinced on that aspect.
And there is a dilemma in itself, HIDs and LEDs are mostly blue and white. They are superb during clear night time conditions..........but their effectiveness in foggy and low-light conditions is well.......uncertain.
Think about it: Blue wavelengths do not do well in those conditions and even more so, the human eye has difficulty in being able to process blue and white colors. Hence, why selective yellow was chosen by scientists and optics experts as the most effective color.
Or if the reason is not of yellow color, then it's because front fog lamps are better positioned to provide light during foggy conditions..............with a 45 degree angle that
and you should NEVER use high beams during fog. According to the SAE, it's one of the dumbest moves that a driver MUST NEVER do in a foggy situation.
Oh and LSIII has a point in stating that LED DRLs don't seem light a substitute. Their lighting characteristics are of lower lighting output.
@1SICK/MIKE
The F-sport package is indeed brilliant no doubt. I think if you're getting a 4GS, F-sport package is definitely the way to go here.
It's just that for me (and I guess for a few others), the omission of the front fog lamps doesn't make sense WHEN the REGULAR versions of the 4GS have them.
And for me, I do not want to resort to aftermarket because I do not want to do any modding (i.e. I personally prefer stock or factory).
All I'm saying here is: With the F-sport package, it is more of:
FOUR steps forward
but
ONE step backward
The only remedy then for the F-sport (and I'm predicting that a GS-F will not have front fog lamps as well) is whether the optional night vision system uses infrared technology (IR). If it's IR based, then at least I know that I can drive a GS F-sport in foggy mountains (like Baguio or Tagaytay here in the country)
That's what I think......
P.S.
Btw:
There's some interesting discussion that I'm reading atm.........regarding fog lamps and automotive lighting.
For those want to read up on it
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ghts-cars.html
It includes technical stuff as well as the physics of light dispersion of automotive lighting systems.
Unless you can convince me that HID has enough ability to penetrate through fog cover, then I would not be convinced on that aspect.
And there is a dilemma in itself, HIDs and LEDs are mostly blue and white. They are superb during clear night time conditions..........but their effectiveness in foggy and low-light conditions is well.......uncertain.
Think about it: Blue wavelengths do not do well in those conditions and even more so, the human eye has difficulty in being able to process blue and white colors. Hence, why selective yellow was chosen by scientists and optics experts as the most effective color.
Or if the reason is not of yellow color, then it's because front fog lamps are better positioned to provide light during foggy conditions..............with a 45 degree angle that
and you should NEVER use high beams during fog. According to the SAE, it's one of the dumbest moves that a driver MUST NEVER do in a foggy situation.
Oh and LSIII has a point in stating that LED DRLs don't seem light a substitute. Their lighting characteristics are of lower lighting output.
@1SICK/MIKE
The F-sport package is indeed brilliant no doubt. I think if you're getting a 4GS, F-sport package is definitely the way to go here.
It's just that for me (and I guess for a few others), the omission of the front fog lamps doesn't make sense WHEN the REGULAR versions of the 4GS have them.
And for me, I do not want to resort to aftermarket because I do not want to do any modding (i.e. I personally prefer stock or factory).
All I'm saying here is: With the F-sport package, it is more of:
FOUR steps forward
but
ONE step backward
The only remedy then for the F-sport (and I'm predicting that a GS-F will not have front fog lamps as well) is whether the optional night vision system uses infrared technology (IR). If it's IR based, then at least I know that I can drive a GS F-sport in foggy mountains (like Baguio or Tagaytay here in the country)
That's what I think......
P.S.
Btw:
There's some interesting discussion that I'm reading atm.........regarding fog lamps and automotive lighting.
For those want to read up on it
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ghts-cars.html
It includes technical stuff as well as the physics of light dispersion of automotive lighting systems.
10-27-11, 12:11 PM
#79
Lexus Connoisseur
Thread Starter
Very good points Blackraven. Which is why I laugh when people think their 6K HID is superior when it comes to illumination, but in reality, performs the worst in inclement weather. 4200K and lower FTW! 
10-27-11, 12:31 PM
#80
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SO FAR... All we know is that the GS450 h F-Sport was announced & will be available in European Market.
Lexus USA has only announced GS350 F-Sport Package for RWD & AWD models.......
Maybe they will decide to announce it in the future?? Who knows..!!??
I just have a strong feeling that the Hybrid F-Sport version would carry a very HEFTY price tag...
(State Side)
~ Joe Z
10-27-11, 12:56 PM
#81
applaud to Blackraven, fantastic post, very very well put.
i think it's just one of those function or form kind of questions. usefulness of fogs are definitely there, i don't think there can be any denial. but looking at current cars and most of the driving conditions, one can probably argue that fogs are not as "necessary", and a lot of times we see fogs that don't really do much function as well other than cosmetic.
and we see more and more transition to led as drl, even more so for cosmetic "cool" effect. it's a moving market probably.
i think it's just one of those function or form kind of questions. usefulness of fogs are definitely there, i don't think there can be any denial. but looking at current cars and most of the driving conditions, one can probably argue that fogs are not as "necessary", and a lot of times we see fogs that don't really do much function as well other than cosmetic.
and we see more and more transition to led as drl, even more so for cosmetic "cool" effect. it's a moving market probably.
10-27-11, 01:55 PM
#82
Wow, some of you folks sure get defensive about my opinions. Sorry, but the LS sport has NOT done well. I've had this discussion with my Lexus dealer, and at over $6000 for the sport package, it is seriously over priced.
We'll see what happens with the GS, and maybe I'll be wrong. But I feel pretty strongly that if the F-Sport package is priced like the LS sport package, it will be a dud. And if it's only available with the base engine - all the more.
We'll see what happens with the GS, and maybe I'll be wrong. But I feel pretty strongly that if the F-Sport package is priced like the LS sport package, it will be a dud. And if it's only available with the base engine - all the more.
10-27-11, 02:10 PM
#83
Um sorry but who cares who mostly drives what kind of car? I've seen old and young men drive Ferraris and Lambo. I've seen MOSTLY old people drive Bentlys but do I care about that? NO. I would still drive a Benlty. So you comment about "Lexus image is overwhelmingly that of catering to old men and blue haired ladies" is utter crap. 
Its about the car you drive not what someone does 
I find it funny you call it being "pumped up" way to downplay Lexus building super sporty cars huh ? Lets not hide the FACT the ISF alone will destroy every Acura on sale today and prob on sale next year too. So before you take shots at Lexus look at what Acura isnt doing.
Cause the way I see it... Acuras are some of the most boring cars on sale today.
"keep in mind that the contents are almost identical to the Sport package offered on the LS460" Wow that comment couldnt be anymore wrong
Im guessing you didnt read the press release about the GS F-Sport. Maybe you should because the LS Sport and GS F-Sport are nothing alike.
Its about the car you drive not what someone does I find it funny you call it being "pumped up" way to downplay Lexus building super sporty cars huh ? Lets not hide the FACT the ISF alone will destroy every Acura on sale today and prob on sale next year too. So before you take shots at Lexus look at what Acura isnt doing.
Cause the way I see it... Acuras are some of the most boring cars on sale today."keep in mind that the contents are almost identical to the Sport package offered on the LS460" Wow that comment couldnt be anymore wrong
Im guessing you didnt read the press release about the GS F-Sport. Maybe you should because the LS Sport and GS F-Sport are nothing alike.I've read all about the F-Sport package. They are both sport packages. Does the GS have more content? Yes it does.
Here is the content of the LS sport package option...
Brembo® brakes; 19" x 8.0" 10-split-spoke forged alloy wheels; 245/45R19 summer tires; Sport-tuned air suspension; Sport exterior rocker panel extensions, front spoilers and grille; Black with saddle tan accent perforated leather interior trim and matte dark brown ash burl interior trim; Leather armrest; Sport front seats; Sport leather-trimmed steering wheel with paddle shifters; Downshift rev-matching
All that lists for $6185.
Makes you wonder how much the sport package for the GS with adaptive suspension and rear steering along with most of the upgrades the LS sport package has will cost, don't you think? If Lexus can manage to price the car reasonably, I'll retract my comments and say I'm wrong. But if a typically optioned GS "F-Sport" comes in over $60,000 I don't see it doing well.
10-27-11, 03:45 PM
#84
Guest
Posts: n/a
applaud to Blackraven, fantastic post, very very well put.
i think it's just one of those function or form kind of questions. usefulness of fogs are definitely there, i don't think there can be any denial. but looking at current cars and most of the driving conditions, one can probably argue that fogs are not as "necessary", and a lot of times we see fogs that don't really do much function as well other than cosmetic.
and we see more and more transition to led as drl, even more so for cosmetic "cool" effect. it's a moving market probably.
i think it's just one of those function or form kind of questions. usefulness of fogs are definitely there, i don't think there can be any denial. but looking at current cars and most of the driving conditions, one can probably argue that fogs are not as "necessary", and a lot of times we see fogs that don't really do much function as well other than cosmetic.
and we see more and more transition to led as drl, even more so for cosmetic "cool" effect. it's a moving market probably.
What again is completely disappointing
is more banter about some damn fog lamps instead of the more special features of the F-sport. This car has yaw control & we are still talking about fog lamps?
Funny but for whatever reason my ES 300 didn't have fogs. I hated it without the fogs. So I simply bought some and installed them and then eventually bought the OEM ones. Viola problem solved.
My GS 450h has yellow fogs, surely not stock. Stormforge bout the $2000 JDM LED fogs. People from all brands are slapping LED strips in their vehicles. I mean we mod.
Yall act like we don't mod
If the GS didn't have LED strips, people would say "OMG thats not luxury, Kia has LED strips". So many other luxury brands have no LED anything or LED strips. ***** at them
Wow, some of you folks sure get defensive about my opinions. Sorry, but the LS sport has NOT done well. I've had this discussion with my Lexus dealer, and at over $6000 for the sport package, it is seriously over priced.
We'll see what happens with the GS, and maybe I'll be wrong. But I feel pretty strongly that if the F-Sport package is priced like the LS sport package, it will be a dud. And if it's only available with the base engine - all the more.
We'll see what happens with the GS, and maybe I'll be wrong. But I feel pretty strongly that if the F-Sport package is priced like the LS sport package, it will be a dud. And if it's only available with the base engine - all the more.
etc....the car has exceeded expectations and they are going to do it again. Again they have an even more limited edition model for 2012 I fully expect there to be a ton of interest in this new GS F-sport and its going to attract new buyers to the brand who felt Lexus was too bland. http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases...n+ls+es+ct.htm
If it was doing bad, they would not invest in it and make an even more special version. Just as the IS F has been updated/revised pretty extensively since 2008.
10-27-11, 03:52 PM
#86
Pole Position
10-27-11, 04:44 PM
#87
Blackraven had a great post and again, I sure am not dismissing fogs or saying they are not important. I love fogs (yellow for a Lexus) and they do help in fog/rain etc.
What again is completely disappointing
is more banter about some damn fog lamps instead of the more special features of the F-sport. This car has yaw control & we are still talking about fog lamps?
Funny but for whatever reason my ES 300 didn't have fogs. I hated it without the fogs. So I simply bought some and installed them and then eventually bought the OEM ones. Viola problem solved.
My GS 450h has yellow fogs, surely not stock. Stormforge bout the $2000 JDM LED fogs. People from all brands are slapping LED strips in their vehicles. I mean we mod.
Yall act like we don't mod
If the GS didn't have LED strips, people would say "OMG thats not luxury, Kia has LED strips". So many other luxury brands have no LED anything or LED strips. ***** at them
And your dealer has their sources. I'm the same guy reporting the RX F-sportetc....the car has exceeded expectations and they are going to do it again. Again they have an even more limited edition model for 2012 I fully expect there to be a ton of interest in this new GS F-sport and its going to attract new buyers to the brand who felt Lexus was too bland.
http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases...n+ls+es+ct.htm
If it was doing bad, they would not invest in it and make an even more special version. Just as the IS F has been updated/revised pretty extensively since 2008.
What again is completely disappointing
is more banter about some damn fog lamps instead of the more special features of the F-sport. This car has yaw control & we are still talking about fog lamps?
Funny but for whatever reason my ES 300 didn't have fogs. I hated it without the fogs. So I simply bought some and installed them and then eventually bought the OEM ones. Viola problem solved.
My GS 450h has yellow fogs, surely not stock. Stormforge bout the $2000 JDM LED fogs. People from all brands are slapping LED strips in their vehicles. I mean we mod.
Yall act like we don't mod
If the GS didn't have LED strips, people would say "OMG thats not luxury, Kia has LED strips". So many other luxury brands have no LED anything or LED strips. ***** at them
And your dealer has their sources. I'm the same guy reporting the RX F-sport
etc....the car has exceeded expectations and they are going to do it again. Again they have an even more limited edition model for 2012 I fully expect there to be a ton of interest in this new GS F-sport and its going to attract new buyers to the brand who felt Lexus was too bland. http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases...n+ls+es+ct.htm
If it was doing bad, they would not invest in it and make an even more special version. Just as the IS F has been updated/revised pretty extensively since 2008.
10-27-11, 04:53 PM
#88
when something is interesting, people will talk about it. if people are interested in talking about fogs, apparently that's the interesting part to be talked about. everyone is welcome to talk about what they think is interesting by all means.
if i have to talk about the fsport? well a lot of stuff i think are expected. all the vgrs, avs, thicker sways, bigger brakes, all those were expected imho. anything less and that's disappointment. i am interested in the larger bushings and how that help. regarding the control arms, i thought the normal 4gs already has aluminum arms. also interested in learning how about how the suspension geometry is changed, aside the effect from lowering springs.
drs is cool, but then what's so exciting about it? it's no longer a new technology. i am happy it's on the gs f-sport, great move for better handling. i like that they focus on this. but as mentioned i wonder what this option is going to cost (i don't think the "normal" fsport includes this). bmw 5 and 7 series both have similar feature as option already, i don't really read about anyone talking about it either.
if any, the wheels and tires are interesting. i am glad that they are willing to put wider tires in the back. 265 is good. just wish they had the power to go with it
although they put changes in the rear, but i still wish they put more changes there to balance it out with the front.
so that's what i feel overall. most stuff are pretty much what i expected about the car. nothing really wow me much
if i have to talk about the fsport? well a lot of stuff i think are expected. all the vgrs, avs, thicker sways, bigger brakes, all those were expected imho. anything less and that's disappointment. i am interested in the larger bushings and how that help. regarding the control arms, i thought the normal 4gs already has aluminum arms. also interested in learning how about how the suspension geometry is changed, aside the effect from lowering springs.
drs is cool, but then what's so exciting about it? it's no longer a new technology. i am happy it's on the gs f-sport, great move for better handling. i like that they focus on this. but as mentioned i wonder what this option is going to cost (i don't think the "normal" fsport includes this). bmw 5 and 7 series both have similar feature as option already, i don't really read about anyone talking about it either.
if any, the wheels and tires are interesting. i am glad that they are willing to put wider tires in the back. 265 is good. just wish they had the power to go with it
although they put changes in the rear, but i still wish they put more changes there to balance it out with the front.
so that's what i feel overall. most stuff are pretty much what i expected about the car. nothing really wow me much
10-27-11, 05:03 PM
#89
Guest
Posts: n/a
The car is such a limited production car that it tells me they are simply trying to find new ways to spur sales of a slow moving car. Just my take on it. I could be wrong though. I have been before and will be again, but cars have been a passion of mine for over 45 years - not bragging, but I'm not wrong that often. If this is one of those times that I am, I owe you an apology. If you live in the Houston area you'd probably be fun to hang out with and talk cars. I mean that as a compliment!
Likewise and trust me I (we) appreciate and value your opinion. No one wants a bunch of agreeing idiots. I think a lot of peoples heads are still spinning Lexus is really pushing sport from the LFA down
when something is interesting, people will talk about it. if people are interested in talking about fogs, apparently that's the interesting part to be talked about. everyone is welcome to talk about what they think is interesting by all means.
if i have to talk about the fsport? well a lot of stuff i think are expected. all the vgrs, avs, thicker sways, bigger brakes, all those were expected imho. anything less and that's disappointment. i am interested in the larger bushings and how that help. regarding the control arms, i thought the normal 4gs already has aluminum arms. also interested in learning how about how the suspension geometry is changed, aside the effect from lowering springs.
drs is cool, but then what's so exciting about it? it's no longer a new technology. i am happy it's on the gs f-sport, great move for better handling. i like that they focus on this. but as mentioned i wonder what this option is going to cost (i don't think the "normal" fsport includes this). bmw 5 and 7 series both have similar feature as option already, i don't really read about anyone talking about it either.
if any, the wheels and tires are interesting. i am glad that they are willing to put wider tires in the back. 265 is good. just wish they had the power to go with it
although they put changes in the rear, but i still wish they put more changes there to balance it out with the front.
so that's what i feel overall. most stuff are pretty much what i expected about the car. nothing really wow me much
if i have to talk about the fsport? well a lot of stuff i think are expected. all the vgrs, avs, thicker sways, bigger brakes, all those were expected imho. anything less and that's disappointment. i am interested in the larger bushings and how that help. regarding the control arms, i thought the normal 4gs already has aluminum arms. also interested in learning how about how the suspension geometry is changed, aside the effect from lowering springs.
drs is cool, but then what's so exciting about it? it's no longer a new technology. i am happy it's on the gs f-sport, great move for better handling. i like that they focus on this. but as mentioned i wonder what this option is going to cost (i don't think the "normal" fsport includes this). bmw 5 and 7 series both have similar feature as option already, i don't really read about anyone talking about it either.
if any, the wheels and tires are interesting. i am glad that they are willing to put wider tires in the back. 265 is good. just wish they had the power to go with it
although they put changes in the rear, but i still wish they put more changes there to balance it out with the front.
so that's what i feel overall. most stuff are pretty much what i expected about the car. nothing really wow me much
It is clear to me they are really pushing the GS 450h here toward efficiency and not power if the hp rating didn't increase and there is no F-sport model. To me then, they should have just made it a GS 300h with the new 2.5/hybrid engine in the Camry to get 40 MPG or so.
Lexus needs to really provide more options for the GS, why they are straddling markets is beyond me. and then they complain about volume.Europe doesn't get the 3.5 V-6 and we won't get the 2.5 V-6. Both markets need both engines.
GS 250
GS 350
GS 450h
GS V freaking 8 gotdamnit
Brilliant lineup
GS 350
GS 350 F sport
GS 450h
there
GS 250
GS 450h
GS 450h F sport
