LIMS407

they will by second year,,,

Dema

Yes, just waiting for second year with lot of improvements based on ours feedback

*Batman*

The problem is they don't have a dedicated power train engineering team. So Toyota decides whether to develop a new Lexus engine, or develop a new Toyota engine.

The new V6 power train will come, but sadly not in time For the launch of the car.

natnut

But 1sicklex's arguments are backed up by empirical evidence : the 535i IS slower than the 4GS in the autocross and has worse skidpad numbers as measured by independant testers(Automobile mag and Motor trend). Also, the automobile magazine professional test-driver commented in one of the videos that the 3GS was subjectively easier to drive around the track compared to the 535i. Those feelings was backed up by one of the layperson drivers in the lexuschallenge videos who commented that the 535i was a tank(felt overweight) and it felt laborious negotiating a curve.

Perhaps the discrepancy between your experience and the automobile mag assessment lies in the fact that you didn't test drive the F-sport.

Dema

So what Toyota car gets 8speed and new v6 engine? Camry?

LexFather

Wait so all these decades when BMW owners and hell all owners of lighter vehicles leveraged low weight as a reason for better handling and superiority now it doesn't matter? Weight is a cars biggest enemy, maybe you didn't know that and are marginalizing the penalty it causes.

Then you are completely condescending calling me a wheel salesman? I don't recall talking to you about what I do? Anything else you want to assume? Shall I take 30 seconds and find out your profession mr "Batman"?

What is unimaginative is people constantly assuming a faster lap time means better car. I have EXPLORED THE LIMIT at a BMW autocross event. My feelings were the BMW had the best steering but there was no masking the extra mass of its size and weight. Of course it handled good but didn't feel as fun or engaging as an E60. Again this is no bad thing, BMW knew most people drive their 5 series non aggressively and based it on the 7 series to save money.

To me at 3700 lbs when it was the E39/E60 or 4400 lbs with the F10, the 5 series is still a superb car and as I've stated, IMO maybe the best overall sedan for the money. I can't find any true flaw with it at all. Looks good, great interior, huge trunk, handles well, huge aftermarket, good prestige. It is just of my opinion and of the experts the F10 has gone big and soft while the Lexus has gone small and tight.

The same reason when Lexus had the 8 speed and the others didn't. Surely it will eventually gain more speeds. We are assuming with the MMC we will see a possible new engine/tranny. No idea at this point.

On the other hand, the same people cried and moaned when Lexus does have an 8 speed so Lexus can't have an 8 or 6 speed. People complain about both.

This is your opinion and not a fact based statement. They have no dedicated power train engineering team? Really?

Exactly.

*Batman*

^ so by your logic that sportiness comes down to weight, the GS350 is sportier than the M5, and the Honda Fit is sportier than both.

spwolf

"it drives well because it is light" seems like somehow god made Lexus light and gave BMW weight penalty they could not do anything about :-). Lexus is light because they focused and spent money on it being light so it can corner better.

BTW, 90% of the torque in that engine is from 2000 rpm.

I guess you could have used F-Sport for tighter cornering, adaptable shocks and better brakes, but I thought that pushing engine to 7000rpm is what all sport fans like to do.

Somehow it seems that some people when comparing the Lexus to BMW, now want Lexus to be quiter and calmer... quite the turnaround from few years ago :-).

spwolf

lol, what? who says that they dont?

BTW, in C&D comparo GS350 got 10% better mpg than Audi 3.0T. What exactly is the 8 speed needed for?

LexFather

Sorry but you are completely taking my words and every single experts words out of context in regards to weight. However no matter how fast or tuned a GS/M5 is, there is a "fun" in the Fit that neither will achieve since it is so small and light. There is a reason the Lotus Elise is 2000 lbs, the McLaren F1 was around 2400 lbs etc etc. There is a reason some people insist on owning an E30 BMW. There was a reason the last E60 used aluminum all in the chassis, to keep things light and more fun. I honestly think what BMW figured out looking at all recent vehicles is 99% of the consumers don't care about weight, they care about size, luxury, hp ratings and lap times to brag about especially in a luxury sedan. This is a complete change in philosophy from their past which again is fine, companies change, adjust for what their highly paid executives figure is best for the company.

From what we know Lexus completely revised the suspension in the car and put significant work in making the chassis sportier. Everyone seems to agree especially experts that even in base form, the new GS is much sportier and a better drive than the last model. The F-sport parts take suspension tuning to the next level and with the optional rear steer the vehicle has posted some amazing handling figures. Considering it is the only sedan that I know of with a 2 piece rotor system for the brakes, they obviously really attacked unsprung weight in the F-sport model.

Whereas every single vehicle in this segment has gotten larger, heavier with more mass (dimensions and weight) Lexus fought that trend making the vehicle hardly any heavier than the last model with dimensions that hardly changed outside of track/width. The danger in this is simple, do people truly want a sportier vehicle, can they get past the "Lexus" or they rather the status quo? Lexus should be commended for doing the exact opposite of what everyone else is doing. Will the comparisons and consumers give Lexus a fair shake with the GS, b/c from what we have seen, driven, read, it is possibly the best driving car in class or at least near the top with the Audi now. Meanwhile it doesn't seem to matter what BMW does to the 5, from the controversial Bangle styling to it now being based on the heavier/larger 7 series, the car sells like hotcakes!!!

*Batman*

^ That's right consumers don't care that much about weight, because these cars in M-Sport or F-Sport guise can take corners so fast, that most drivers are scared to go that fast. I love going really fast on ramps, and whether in my Lexus or in my BMW, I have yet to find someone come anywhere near the speed I can take those ramps. Not even the Porsche drivers want to corner at those speeds. I'm normally taking these ramps 20mph faster than the faster cars, and even then the tires are not making any noise.

Even driving on a track the weight is not a problem, unless you are trying to beat a Porsche. So weight, and lateral traction are not a limiting factor unless you are actually racing on a track.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

batman, i think you're talking about a 3GS460 comparing to a 550i which, imo, is apples and oranges. handling on the 4GS (esp. f-sport) is obviously MUCH better than the 3GS. lexus got the message, worked on weight and in particular unsprung weight, and good for them, it paid off. i personally like the looks of the 5 series (esp. m-sport) better though.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i think your comment is rather rude. please be more thoughtful going forward. mike is hardly unimaginitive or into excuses.

Rexus300

iTrader: (1)

Ok ok everyone lets not get into this big argument. Batman and Me are both 2011 BMW 535i owners and we both have driven the new GS. We have different opinions of it but its a great car and a great step forward for Lexus. I am very impress with it and will be adding one to my fleet.

spwolf

well obviously you are disappointed because you are used to 550i... but in objective measurements, 350 F-Sport beats 535i even in acceleration, with higher trap speeds, and much better handling/stopping.

I wish you try GS450h when it comes out and let us know how that looks.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course and we all vote with our wallets.