Batman's Test Drive
02-06-12, 06:39 PM
#46
Lexus Champion
I agree with Batman in that I too prefer the "sewing machine" sound to a louder engine, but I guess since this is the GS it's supposed to be sportier to stand out from the ES. Adding something like this to the ES or even RX would just be pointless.
Having said that I think I disagree with Batman on the styling, at least partially. I don't think this is an ugly car, but I think it needs certain colors and trims to really shine. The design is very subtle in places and getting it in brown or blue or white just hides all that and a lot of the character is lost.
This is among the best looking cars in the segment for me, above the A6 and just below the F10 5er.
It's very sculpted and clean, with jewelry like details. There is more attention to detail in one door handle than the entire body work of an A6 IMHO.
Having said that I think I disagree with Batman on the styling, at least partially. I don't think this is an ugly car, but I think it needs certain colors and trims to really shine. The design is very subtle in places and getting it in brown or blue or white just hides all that and a lot of the character is lost.
This is among the best looking cars in the segment for me, above the A6 and just below the F10 5er.
It's very sculpted and clean, with jewelry like details. There is more attention to detail in one door handle than the entire body work of an A6 IMHO.
02-06-12, 08:34 PM
#47
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Mr Burns I agree that the A6 is a very plain looking car. In fact the A6 does not look like a luxury car to me either inside or outside.
But personally I do think the F10, XF and 3GS were beautiful designs, whereas this design is not beautiful - it is provocative rather than sensual. It is much like the E60 5 series - a car whose design led me to buy a Lexus after 4 consecutive BMWs. However the E60 design was popular with many. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
But personally I do think the F10, XF and 3GS were beautiful designs, whereas this design is not beautiful - it is provocative rather than sensual. It is much like the E60 5 series - a car whose design led me to buy a Lexus after 4 consecutive BMWs. However the E60 design was popular with many. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
02-06-12, 08:52 PM
#48
Lexus Champion
Mr Burns I agree that the A6 is a very plain looking car. In fact the A6 does not look like a luxury car to me either inside or outside.
But personally I do think the F10, XF and 3GS were beautiful designs, whereas this design is not beautiful - it is provocative rather than sensual. It is much like the E60 5 series - a car whose design led me to buy a Lexus after 4 consecutive BMWs. However the E60 design was popular with many. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
But personally I do think the F10, XF and 3GS were beautiful designs, whereas this design is not beautiful - it is provocative rather than sensual. It is much like the E60 5 series - a car whose design led me to buy a Lexus after 4 consecutive BMWs. However the E60 design was popular with many. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
3GS was a very safe, and very boring design IMO, this one seems to command an emotional response for once, but still maintains that level of execution that I've come to love in Lexus designs. You can almost see that this car was inspired by supercars, but of course with the more conventional 4 door sedan proportions.
02-07-12, 09:13 AM
#49
That 450h picture and the one higher up in the thread (taken in Korea?) remind me to wonder if one could put the F-sport grill inserts on a 450h. The mesh grill insert is much more appealing than the horizontal bars in my opinion.
02-07-12, 10:06 AM
#50
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Ouch...C&Ds long term 535 test, mimics my thoughts
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review
FYI the 3GS won international design awards and clearly was as copied as a design as it comes. To me tasteful and classy is not boring.
From day I here I have always stated I don't desire huge emblems, giant grills and "hey look at me" styling. Seems that is all designers know how to do today
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review
The only part of this design that is even remotely controversial is the grill. Outside of that though I don't see anything to really "hate" or find ugly. However even the grill (on silver cars especially) is beautifully 3 dimensional
3GS was a very safe, and very boring design IMO, this one seems to command an emotional response for once, but still maintains that level of execution that I've come to love in Lexus designs. You can almost see that this car was inspired by supercars, but of course with the more conventional 4 door sedan proportions.
3GS was a very safe, and very boring design IMO, this one seems to command an emotional response for once, but still maintains that level of execution that I've come to love in Lexus designs. You can almost see that this car was inspired by supercars, but of course with the more conventional 4 door sedan proportions.
From day I here I have always stated I don't desire huge emblems, giant grills and "hey look at me" styling. Seems that is all designers know how to do today
Last edited by LexFather; 02-07-12 at 10:13 AM.
02-07-12, 02:16 PM
#51
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I test drove a AWD 535i today as well as a awd E350 and the AWD Lux 4gGS350...
As my DD is a 5 series, I was convinced the BMW would come out on top.... Long story short this is one of the worse 5 Series I've ever driven. While not in sport mode it wallows like a pig and the X35 engine I loved in the 335 feels very detuned... turbo lag and no real grunt... In sport mode it was better, but this car does not deserve the BMW badge! Even the E350 rode, handled and responded better! BMW what did you do???? The "Napa leather" feels like cardboard... My old E39 leather is far superior... yes mine is an older M-sport 6spd V8... but it handles and pulls much better than this "twin turbo" pig... The F10 dash was much more modern and I like the more modern electronics... but I would not drive this if it were given to me... I'd take the GS first or even the 'Benz or I'd trade it in on a real BMW... or a new GS... and reading the reliability issues of the F-10 it's clear BMW F-upped this one...
The GS was easily the best of the 3, but I liked the F-sport GS I drove even better than this awd LUX package... I like the wood in the Lux package though... It really doesn't need a V8 for 98% of the folks, it will run with my v8/6spd manual BMW easily... 'course I still want a V8... or FI
Batman, try to find a F-sport with rear steer to test drive... It still will not outrun your Dinan 550, few cars will... but you will like it a lot better... and if Lexus pulls out a GSF...
As my DD is a 5 series, I was convinced the BMW would come out on top.... Long story short this is one of the worse 5 Series I've ever driven. While not in sport mode it wallows like a pig and the X35 engine I loved in the 335 feels very detuned... turbo lag and no real grunt... In sport mode it was better, but this car does not deserve the BMW badge! Even the E350 rode, handled and responded better! BMW what did you do???? The "Napa leather" feels like cardboard... My old E39 leather is far superior... yes mine is an older M-sport 6spd V8... but it handles and pulls much better than this "twin turbo" pig... The F10 dash was much more modern and I like the more modern electronics... but I would not drive this if it were given to me... I'd take the GS first or even the 'Benz or I'd trade it in on a real BMW... or a new GS... and reading the reliability issues of the F-10 it's clear BMW F-upped this one...
The GS was easily the best of the 3, but I liked the F-sport GS I drove even better than this awd LUX package... I like the wood in the Lux package though... It really doesn't need a V8 for 98% of the folks, it will run with my v8/6spd manual BMW easily... 'course I still want a V8... or FI
Batman, try to find a F-sport with rear steer to test drive... It still will not outrun your Dinan 550, few cars will... but you will like it a lot better... and if Lexus pulls out a GSF...
02-07-12, 02:23 PM
#52
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
^ I think you may have been comparing Apples and Oranges. The Lux4GGS350 has Active Variable Suspension which helps keep the car flat in turns.
The BMW you drove probably does not have Dynamic Damper Control or Active Roll Stabilization. The Sport mode you refer to just changes the transmission settings. If you drove a car with Dynamic Damper Control, Active Roll Stabilization and Integral Active Steering, you would have experienced no body roll but just sharp handling.
All these cars are designed to be setup for different buyers. The stock suspension on the 535i is designed for the traditional Lexus buyer who likes a soft comfy ride. The M-Sport with optional Active Roll Stabilization and Integral Active Steering is for the enthusiast. In that config it is the best non-M BMW I have driven.
But there is no point debating these things, test drive, buy what you want. Be happy.
As for which car is better - that is subjective. The only objective measure is which car will sell better which remains to be seen.
The BMW you drove probably does not have Dynamic Damper Control or Active Roll Stabilization. The Sport mode you refer to just changes the transmission settings. If you drove a car with Dynamic Damper Control, Active Roll Stabilization and Integral Active Steering, you would have experienced no body roll but just sharp handling.
All these cars are designed to be setup for different buyers. The stock suspension on the 535i is designed for the traditional Lexus buyer who likes a soft comfy ride. The M-Sport with optional Active Roll Stabilization and Integral Active Steering is for the enthusiast. In that config it is the best non-M BMW I have driven.
But there is no point debating these things, test drive, buy what you want. Be happy.
As for which car is better - that is subjective. The only objective measure is which car will sell better which remains to be seen.
02-07-12, 02:23 PM
#53
itruns,
I sold my 2011 BMW 535i xdrive fully loaded but without dynamic supension. IT was horrendous after 15k miles in 1 year. IT cannot absorb the road irregularities very well and transmit them as vibration into the car seats on highways and wallows when making big lane changes and hesitate on the get go with the turbo lag. I couldn't stand that heavy car that I am glad its gone. I drove the new GS and the sports version and both of them are a lot more fun to drive than the 5. BMW really messed this one up. My 335i coupe is alot better than this new 5.
To Batman, the stock suspension is alot worse than any car in the luxury category that I have every driven in my life. It feels so bad to compensate for the runflats that even putting top of the line Michelin regular non-rfts to help with the ride, the car is confused. You are right that the dynamic handling package is needed for this car. This car is not suppose to be Lexus like as BMW does not do that well. Lexus did the ride part extremely well with the handling even on the base suspension with no choppy ride on the highways.
I sold my 2011 BMW 535i xdrive fully loaded but without dynamic supension. IT was horrendous after 15k miles in 1 year. IT cannot absorb the road irregularities very well and transmit them as vibration into the car seats on highways and wallows when making big lane changes and hesitate on the get go with the turbo lag. I couldn't stand that heavy car that I am glad its gone. I drove the new GS and the sports version and both of them are a lot more fun to drive than the 5. BMW really messed this one up. My 335i coupe is alot better than this new 5.
To Batman, the stock suspension is alot worse than any car in the luxury category that I have every driven in my life. It feels so bad to compensate for the runflats that even putting top of the line Michelin regular non-rfts to help with the ride, the car is confused. You are right that the dynamic handling package is needed for this car. This car is not suppose to be Lexus like as BMW does not do that well. Lexus did the ride part extremely well with the handling even on the base suspension with no choppy ride on the highways.
02-07-12, 02:36 PM
#54
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^ I think you may have been comparing Apples and Oranges. The Lux4GGS350 has Active Variable Suspension which helps keep the car flat in turns.
The BMW you drove probably does not have Dynamic Damper Control or Active Roll Stabilization. The Sport mode you refer to just changes the transmission settings. If you drove a car with Dynamic Damper Control, Active Roll Stabilization and Integral Active Steering, you would have experienced no body roll but just sharp handling.
All these cars are designed to be setup for different buyers. The stock suspension on the 535i is designed for the traditional Lexus buyer who likes a soft comfy ride. The M-Sport with optional Active Roll Stabilization and Integral Active Steering is for the enthusiast. In that config it is the best non-M BMW I have driven.
But there is no point debating these things, test drive, buy what you want. Be happy.
As for which car is better - that is subjective. The only objective measure is which car will sell better which remains to be seen.
The BMW you drove probably does not have Dynamic Damper Control or Active Roll Stabilization. The Sport mode you refer to just changes the transmission settings. If you drove a car with Dynamic Damper Control, Active Roll Stabilization and Integral Active Steering, you would have experienced no body roll but just sharp handling.
All these cars are designed to be setup for different buyers. The stock suspension on the 535i is designed for the traditional Lexus buyer who likes a soft comfy ride. The M-Sport with optional Active Roll Stabilization and Integral Active Steering is for the enthusiast. In that config it is the best non-M BMW I have driven.
But there is no point debating these things, test drive, buy what you want. Be happy.
As for which car is better - that is subjective. The only objective measure is which car will sell better which remains to be seen.
The point is these cars were all with a couple of thou of each other... the BMW didn't have much at all at this price point...not even NAV... so I have to spend 10-20k more to get a car that handles as well and has the same options as a mid $50k GS? I love BMW, but the badge/Drivers heritage only buys so much..
02-07-12, 02:37 PM
#55
Batman, I agree the M-sport has to be much nicer to drive... or BMW would not be selling anything if All BMW's were like this one... The Stock Lexus ES lux boat handled better than this... That’s why I got a M-sport when I did... the M5's were out of budget and the non-m-Sports were not much fun... but a old e39 525 handled better than this pig.. but the turbo would have taken it...
The point is these cars were all with a couple of thou of each other... the BMW didn't have much at all at this price point...not even NAV... so I have to spend 10-20k more to get a car that handles as well and has the same options as a mid $50k GS? I love BMW, but the badge/Drivers heritage only buys so much..
The point is these cars were all with a couple of thou of each other... the BMW didn't have much at all at this price point...not even NAV... so I have to spend 10-20k more to get a car that handles as well and has the same options as a mid $50k GS? I love BMW, but the badge/Drivers heritage only buys so much..
02-07-12, 03:12 PM
#56
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Sorry but you can't expect me to take you seriously if you make ridiculous statements like this. I owned a 2009 ES350 until December, and there is no comparison. The ES handling is a joke.
Statements like that indicate substantial bias. There is no point discussing.
Statements like that indicate substantial bias. There is no point discussing.
02-07-12, 07:08 PM
#57
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Amazingly the GS seems to be the sportiest drive/best handling possibly in this class and one by one people are discovering this on test drives. Its great since Lexus worked extra hard to improve in this area people have complained about for years. Both are cars most wish they could drive. We are lucky to be comparing two great cars like this.
02-08-12, 11:25 AM
#60
It's good to read a review from a 3gs and 5 series owner. I'm a current 3gs owner, and while I plan on test driving the 4gs before i decide on my next car, the exterior styling is driving me towards a 535.