*Batman*

Before you read the review, you should know that I currently own both a 2008 GS460 and a 2012 BMW 550i. I also recently test drove both the 535i and the A6 3.0T.

I took this car for a test drive today. They didn't have an F-Sport available so I took out the Luxury Package model with Active Variable Suspension. I did most of the test drive in Sport+ because that's how I roll, but I did check out Sport and Normal. I didn't bother with Eco because I don't care for Eco mode.

Bottom line - I was disappointed - actually prefer the 535i and the A6 from a driving experience perspective. Feel that my 3GS GS460 is a much more satisfying drive than the new GS350.

What I liked:
+ The interior is among the best in the market - and certainly best at this price(won't elaborate since I commented extensively on that in my Lexus of North Miami thread)
+ The car is much more solid than before. None of the body flex and shake that you had on the old GS when you took corners hard over expansion joints. It feels rock solid like the German cars do.
+ The engine has a nice punch at higher revs and no lag I think this is a quality which may make it enjoyable on an an auto-X track, but as I mention below, the lack of low-end torque is a problem in day to day driving.
+ It corners well because it is light, but it didn't seems to me to corner any better than the competition. I think part of this is because the car seems to be a little soft on turn-in compared with a BMW so you aren't inclined to be as aggressive with it.

What I didn't like:
- It feels sluggish off the line. I think it is because the naturally aspirated engine has peak torque at high revs, whereas the BMW 535i and A6 have much more low end torque. This means the BMW 535i feels like a much more powerful car in town driving than the Lexus GS350. On the whole I felt the 535i had as much engine response as my GS460, however the GS350 seems a big step down in terms of power. It may be there on paper, but as a driver - it feels sluggish to me.
- The steering doesn't seem as precise and sharp as the BMWs. It feels better than the old one, but it doesn't seem sporty to me yet. It's a little fuzzy on turn-in, has a little bit more play than BMWs.
- The car is loud. The engine requires revving to get the car moving, the exhaust is loud, the engine doesn't have that soft electric whine I associate with Lexus engines, but more of a roar I associate with Jaguars and Porsches. The BMW feels more refined as a result. One of the things I liked about the old GS was how quiet the car is - the old GS seemed very refined, this felt rough.
- No Auto Handbrake. BMW and Audi have this feature where it automatically applies handbrake when you are in drive but standstill. It saves the need to keep your foot on the brake when standstill at lights or in traffic. I love this feature and was disappointed Lexus does not offer it in the GS but only in the LS.
- Lack of dynamic range in AVS. The difference between Sport mode and Normal mode is noticeable, however I would like Lexus to offer a true comfort mode. The dynamic range between the softest and firmest settings is limited compared with what the German's offer.

On the whole I was not impressed. I was considering upgrading our GS460 to a 4GS, but based on this test drive, I'd rather get an Audi (since I don't want 2 BMWs). But I will wait to see if the GS450h can change my mind.

*Batman*

One more thing about the engine. When I was in Spain driving the 2013 M5, I commented that the M3 was much more enjoyable on the track than the M5 even though the M5 was quicker. The reason being that in the quick stop go acceleration of an auto-cross track, and the ability to drive the car mostly in the 5-7k rpm range, the naturally aspirated engine is more predictable and responsive, whereas the turbo sometimes has lag. However at the time I commented that the M5 was much more enjoyable on the roads because the turbos never got tired in that context, and you consistently enjoyed more lower end torque when you pressed the pedal.

The same thing is true when you compare a BMW 535i vs. the GS350.

Mr. Burns

I don't buy that this car is loud, every review has commented on how quiet it is. The engine is probably louder than before at full throttle, but Lexus added that to make the car more engaging and sportier. People complained the old one sounded like a sewing machine. I guess you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

According to Insideline's measurements the GS is quieter at 70mph cruise than the 5 series, and reviews have also noted that the GS is quieter overall than the 5 series and even the A6.

Dema

Numbers show that GS isn't slower BMW. Sure it isn't so fast as Audi which is 0.6 seconds faster in straight line, so if you had subjective feel that the car is sluggish, it is a good sign for me. It means that the car accelerates linearly, not like other with some spikes, so certainly transmission of the new GS is very good. So thanks for review, it confirmed me that the car is awesome.

Rexus300

iTrader: (1)

I on the other hand also owned a 2006 Lexus GS and a 2011 BMW 535i with base suspension and find the 2013 Lexus GS superior than any of those 2. Even the A6 was nice but a bit boring feel compared to the GS.

BMW felt bloaty, floaty, choppy, and numb.
GS felt smooth, sharper, smoother, and fun.

*Batman*

To be clear the noise I am talking about is not tire or wind. I am talking about engine/exhaust noise when accelerating. I think this was because I had to rev the engine to get the acceleration, whereas with the FI cars I don't need to rev the engine as much because I get the torque earlier.

I like the "sewing machine" noise over this.

Alantjai

Thats because you are used to the v8 of the gs460 and 550i, those have the low end torque and sewing machine effect. The steering must be better sharper an more precise with the fsport verion.

Power might not be an issue anymore with the 450h, there isplenty of torque right available in any rpm?

Mr. Burns

I think that's because you're trying to recreate the acceleration of the FI cars with the NA engine. In every day driving you will rarely encounter that unless you drive it like you stole it all the time.

If you own and regularly drive a modded 550i, yes you will find this car slightly anemic. But there is nothing anemic about 300+HP and a 0-60 time of under 6 seconds for a car of this size.

IMO 3.0L 6 cylinder engines turboed or supercharged are not that great compared to a smooth 3.5L NA engine. Yes you have great low end torque, but particularly in the 5er, it becomes inconsistent and unrefined with the lag, not to mention added maintenance worries and definite reliability issues. The only reason the Germans have gone FI is because they want to maintain the power/mpg ratio, and it's the lazy way out. The 5 series has become overweight, and FI is its solution (rather than going through the trouble of making the car lighter). The A6 needs to keep weight down to fit in the AWD because Audi can't be bothered to engineer it RWD, and the supercharged engine fits in there as well. Lexus made the GS lighter to maintain performance and fuel economy with the NA engine.

Vladi

Come on give Batman a break. Coming off from eight cylinder engines into sixer or four banger is a weird feeling. Cars that have more torque at the bottom end feel multiple times faster and sharper freakin all the time. Maybe its cause you take fast turns at lower speeds while having a rush of accelerating really fast at the same time so you get the sense that you are blasting trough those corners, at least that is my rationale why big bottom torque cars feel sportier most of the time, its hard to explain but thats the impression i get.
If you ever have a chance to test drive IS220d and IS250 back to back most of you would say that diesel is quicker when in reality its not. Its that low end burst that gets you going.

Great write up Batman.

*Batman*

I agree that the Germans may be doing FI for the wrong reasons, however as a consumer I believe these engines offer a superior driving experience.

Before I got my 550i, back when the GS460 was my daily driver, I went to test drive a 535i. I remember that the 535i felt just as fast as my GS460 off the line. The V8 only had an advantage at higher speeds (e.g. 50-100mph). However when I compare the new GS350 to my GS460, I get the sense of a substantial power loss because the torque curve is too linear.

Another way of putting it is this:
Given the way I like to drive, in a 535i I can leverage torque for quick acceleration without exceeding 4000 revs, however with the GS I need to go into the 4-6k rev range to get decent torque. This difference makes the car feel sluggish and noisy because I have to rev the engine more.

However I don't disagree that if you are used to 6 cylinder NA cars, this one is pretty good. Plus it is priced to compete with the 528i not the 535i. Versus the 528i I am sure the performance is favorable.

*Batman*

Thanks Vladi. I am surprised that there is so much push back on this torque curve point. It is pretty self evident!

Mr. Burns

4-6k is very demanding, you shouldn't need to rev a V6 like that past 3k in day to day use, even 2k is sufficient for most applications.

LexFather

Thanks for the review. I've been pretty disappointed with my 5 series I-6 and V-8 drives, there is no denying the mass (its much larger) and the steering feel is much lighter. Even C&D stated BMW has moved the needle to Lexus. Mind you they are not bad cars at all but no longer the light, fun 5 series cars of past. We are talking 3700-3800 lbs vs 4400-45000 lbs. That is a huge difference. I also prefer the twin turbo V-8 spool to the one big turbo in the I-6. I still feel it was laggy and prefer N/A if both make the same HP. The 5 is a SWB 7, which is fine.

I have yet to drive the new A6 but I don't really desire AWD and its FWD without it. It seems to be a good drive in reviews (so I need to check it out).

Whats funny is on some comments I've reads now the mantra is "oh being sportiest is silly, I cruise in my car" since the GS seems to be sportier than the 5 series now.

Everyone here should drive the F-sport with the optional Rear Steer. I just wish Lexus gave it a 400hp option as well

Its funny we now live in a world where the Lexus is sportier than the BMW and the BMW is bigger and less sporty

*Batman*

Mike I think arguments like yours about weight are an excuse used by the unimaginitive. As a wheel salesman you should know this.

The F10 M5 manages to beat the much lighter M3 round the ring, and the M5 weighs within 50lbs of a 550i. You just need the contact area to be sized commensurate with the weight and that is the case on the M5.

I have found I can drve my heavier 550i faster in corners than my considerably lighter GS460 because of the better steering and suspension setup which allows me to explore closer to the limit. It's not that it has more grip, but the grip is easier to use because of the balance, the feedback and the stability.

I doubt anyone commenting on this thread is exploring that limit anyway.

jjscsix

This is where the eight speed transmission would have helped. I'm totally dumbfounded that they did not upgrade to that transmission on an all new car competing with Infiniti (7 speed), BMW (8), Audi (8) and M-B (7).