Batman's Test Drive
#16
#18
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
The new V6 power train will come, but sadly not in time For the launch of the car.
#19
Pole Position
Mike I think arguments like yours about weight are an excuse used by the unimaginitive. As a wheel salesman you should know this.
The F10 M5 manages to beat the much lighter M3 round the ring, and the M5 weighs within 50lbs of a 550i. You just need the contact area to be sized commensurate with the weight and that is the case on the M5.
I have found I can drve my heavier 550i faster in corners than my considerably lighter GS460 because of the better steering and suspension setup which allows me to explore closer to the limit. It's not that it has more grip, but the grip is easier to use because of the balance, the feedback and the stability.
I doubt anyone commenting on this thread is exploring that limit anyway.
The F10 M5 manages to beat the much lighter M3 round the ring, and the M5 weighs within 50lbs of a 550i. You just need the contact area to be sized commensurate with the weight and that is the case on the M5.
I have found I can drve my heavier 550i faster in corners than my considerably lighter GS460 because of the better steering and suspension setup which allows me to explore closer to the limit. It's not that it has more grip, but the grip is easier to use because of the balance, the feedback and the stability.
I doubt anyone commenting on this thread is exploring that limit anyway.
Perhaps the discrepancy between your experience and the automobile mag assessment lies in the fact that you didn't test drive the F-sport.
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mike I think arguments like yours about weight are an excuse used by the unimaginitive. As a wheel salesman you should know this.
The F10 M5 manages to beat the much lighter M3 round the ring, and the M5 weighs within 50lbs of a 550i. You just need the contact area to be sized commensurate with the weight and that is the case on the M5.
I have found I can drve my heavier 550i faster in corners than my considerably lighter GS460 because of the better steering and suspension setup which allows me to explore closer to the limit. It's not that it has more grip, but the grip is easier to use because of the balance, the feedback and the stability.
I doubt anyone commenting on this thread is exploring that limit anyway.
The F10 M5 manages to beat the much lighter M3 round the ring, and the M5 weighs within 50lbs of a 550i. You just need the contact area to be sized commensurate with the weight and that is the case on the M5.
I have found I can drve my heavier 550i faster in corners than my considerably lighter GS460 because of the better steering and suspension setup which allows me to explore closer to the limit. It's not that it has more grip, but the grip is easier to use because of the balance, the feedback and the stability.
I doubt anyone commenting on this thread is exploring that limit anyway.
Then you are completely condescending calling me a wheel salesman? I don't recall talking to you about what I do? Anything else you want to assume? Shall I take 30 seconds and find out your profession mr "Batman"?
What is unimaginative is people constantly assuming a faster lap time means better car. I have EXPLORED THE LIMIT at a BMW autocross event. My feelings were the BMW had the best steering but there was no masking the extra mass of its size and weight. Of course it handled good but didn't feel as fun or engaging as an E60. Again this is no bad thing, BMW knew most people drive their 5 series non aggressively and based it on the 7 series to save money.
To me at 3700 lbs when it was the E39/E60 or 4400 lbs with the F10, the 5 series is still a superb car and as I've stated, IMO maybe the best overall sedan for the money. I can't find any true flaw with it at all. Looks good, great interior, huge trunk, handles well, huge aftermarket, good prestige. It is just of my opinion and of the experts the F10 has gone big and soft while the Lexus has gone small and tight.
On the other hand, the same people cried and moaned when Lexus does have an 8 speed so Lexus can't have an 8 or 6 speed. People complain about both.
But 1sicklex's arguments are backed up by empirical evidence : the 535i IS slower than the 4GS in the autocross and has worse skidpad numbers as measured by independant testers(Automobile mag and Motor trend). Also, the automobile magazine professional test-driver commented in one of the videos that the 3GS was subjectively easier to drive around the track compared to the 535i. Those feelings was backed up by one of the layperson drivers in the lexuschallenge videos who commented that the 535i was a tank(felt overweight) and it felt laborious negotiating a curve.
Perhaps the discrepancy between your experience and the automobile mag assessment lies in the fact that you didn't test drive the F-sport.
Perhaps the discrepancy between your experience and the automobile mag assessment lies in the fact that you didn't test drive the F-sport.
Last edited by LexFather; 02-05-12 at 10:22 PM.
#23
"it drives well because it is light" seems like somehow god made Lexus light and gave BMW weight penalty they could not do anything about :-). Lexus is light because they focused and spent money on it being light so it can corner better.
BTW, 90% of the torque in that engine is from 2000 rpm.
I guess you could have used F-Sport for tighter cornering, adaptable shocks and better brakes, but I thought that pushing engine to 7000rpm is what all sport fans like to do.
Somehow it seems that some people when comparing the Lexus to BMW, now want Lexus to be quiter and calmer... quite the turnaround from few years ago :-).
BTW, 90% of the torque in that engine is from 2000 rpm.
I guess you could have used F-Sport for tighter cornering, adaptable shocks and better brakes, but I thought that pushing engine to 7000rpm is what all sport fans like to do.
Somehow it seems that some people when comparing the Lexus to BMW, now want Lexus to be quiter and calmer... quite the turnaround from few years ago :-).
#24
BTW, in C&D comparo GS350 got 10% better mpg than Audi 3.0T. What exactly is the 8 speed needed for?
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
From what we know Lexus completely revised the suspension in the car and put significant work in making the chassis sportier. Everyone seems to agree especially experts that even in base form, the new GS is much sportier and a better drive than the last model. The F-sport parts take suspension tuning to the next level and with the optional rear steer the vehicle has posted some amazing handling figures. Considering it is the only sedan that I know of with a 2 piece rotor system for the brakes, they obviously really attacked unsprung weight in the F-sport model.
Whereas every single vehicle in this segment has gotten larger, heavier with more mass (dimensions and weight) Lexus fought that trend making the vehicle hardly any heavier than the last model with dimensions that hardly changed outside of track/width. The danger in this is simple, do people truly want a sportier vehicle, can they get past the "Lexus" or they rather the status quo? Lexus should be commended for doing the exact opposite of what everyone else is doing. Will the comparisons and consumers give Lexus a fair shake with the GS, b/c from what we have seen, driven, read, it is possibly the best driving car in class or at least near the top with the Audi now. Meanwhile it doesn't seem to matter what BMW does to the 5, from the controversial Bangle styling to it now being based on the heavier/larger 7 series, the car sells like hotcakes!!!
#26
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
^ That's right consumers don't care that much about weight, because these cars in M-Sport or F-Sport guise can take corners so fast, that most drivers are scared to go that fast. I love going really fast on ramps, and whether in my Lexus or in my BMW, I have yet to find someone come anywhere near the speed I can take those ramps. Not even the Porsche drivers want to corner at those speeds. I'm normally taking these ramps 20mph faster than the faster cars, and even then the tires are not making any noise.
Even driving on a track the weight is not a problem, unless you are trying to beat a Porsche. So weight, and lateral traction are not a limiting factor unless you are actually racing on a track.
Even driving on a track the weight is not a problem, unless you are trying to beat a Porsche. So weight, and lateral traction are not a limiting factor unless you are actually racing on a track.
#27
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
batman, i think you're talking about a 3GS460 comparing to a 550i which, imo, is apples and oranges. handling on the 4GS (esp. f-sport) is obviously MUCH better than the 3GS. lexus got the message, worked on weight and in particular unsprung weight, and good for them, it paid off. i personally like the looks of the 5 series (esp. m-sport) better though.
#28
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
#29
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (1)
Ok ok everyone lets not get into this big argument. Batman and Me are both 2011 BMW 535i owners and we both have driven the new GS. We have different opinions of it but its a great car and a great step forward for Lexus. I am very impress with it and will be adding one to my fleet.
#30
^ That's right consumers don't care that much about weight, because these cars in M-Sport or F-Sport guise can take corners so fast, that most drivers are scared to go that fast. I love going really fast on ramps, and whether in my Lexus or in my BMW, I have yet to find someone come anywhere near the speed I can take those ramps. Not even the Porsche drivers want to corner at those speeds. I'm normally taking these ramps 20mph faster than the faster cars, and even then the tires are not making any noise.
Even driving on a track the weight is not a problem, unless you are trying to beat a Porsche. So weight, and lateral traction are not a limiting factor unless you are actually racing on a track.
Even driving on a track the weight is not a problem, unless you are trying to beat a Porsche. So weight, and lateral traction are not a limiting factor unless you are actually racing on a track.
I wish you try GS450h when it comes out and let us know how that looks.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course and we all vote with our wallets.