masboy

iTrader: (30)

nice review Henry. first time for me to actually reading car review from word to word....

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i am just curious though, have you driven the 4gs yet? or can you define again what is performance? straight line 0-60 and 1/4 mile? if that's what you care about performance i guess you might have a point because the 4gs doesn't have a v8. however i think performance has a lot to just straight line speed.

i knocked on the exterior of the car since early on, but i always reserved my opinions on driving until i drove the car. i think lexus made the car to drive very well, in fact neck to neck with bmw 535 msport, and infiniti isn't really even in the picture imho.

if you think lexus is not built for performance, i don't know how to classify cars like isf and lfa. i am not saying isf is better than c63 or m3, but it's still one hell of a performance car

but in some sense i expect a bit more out of fsport. it's probably a sujective view, but at least i expect a bit more tweaking on the suspension.

haha thanks kevin, it was just a very rough write up in 20 mins

adamls2

To be honest, when ever they started making "F-sport" models I never really took them seriously or had any interest in them. My personal expectations for an F-sport model weren't that high and the GS F-sport is what expected if not more. I'm just hoping that "if" they make a GSF that it will blow us away in every aspect.

T4Fun

there goes a saying on the street...

lexus, mercedes, (a few other luxury brands as well) are for people who want to be driven

bmw is for drivers..

i respect lexus for the quality they build, but i have no intention of ever calling a lexus a performance car.... do not even mention the lfa.. a gtr will blow that thing away and it costs 3-4x as much...for that money you can get an italian sports car..take your pick (oh by the way, paris hilton drives a LFA, lol....)

the only real performance car if you want to call it that toyota ever made was the supra last generation, and supposedly its due out in 2013 we will see

jjscsix

I respect that not everyone wants the same thing in a car that I want. For me, less than 400 hp in the GS is not enough to put it in the same ranks as a BMW 5 or even an Infiniti M. Heck, even the Genesis has not one, but two V8's with much more hp than the GS offers. And yes, I agree that there are good Sports Sedans with less than 400 - such as the S4 Audi. But in this class, without at least having the option of that much I'm disappointed in Lexus for acting like they have finally built the holy grail of sports sedans.

LexFather

Well we can appreciate you having a close mind and not knowing much about cars. When a stock BMW can keep up with a SLR/SLS or LFA let us know So the LFA which is superior to any BMW made is not a performance car, to hell wiht the 7:14 lap time and everything. To hell with Lexus racing as well. No your basis is b/c Paris Hilton owns one. Should we name who owns everything else? Who even argues like that? The IS F is not performance either? Its like saying "no BMW can ever be reliable". So AMG cars and Mercedes Rich racing history should be ignored? If you haven't noticed, BMW isn't the sportiest anymore in multiple segments.

We are one a forum with thousands of other people who beg to differ. How about open your mind and be a real enthusiast.

LexFather

While I completely agree 100% a V-8 should be offered where do you get this "Lexus acting like they built the holy grain" from? I haven't seen it. What I've seen is Lexus seem to build the sportiest car in class with the V-6/hybrid and this is what is happening
1. People, usually those with closed minds, can't accept it
2. People completely ignoring that the GS is now legitimately sportiest in class and up for serious debate instead focusing all efforts on the grill
3. Now "sport" is being leveraged as not as important as other features since Lexus is doing sport lol
4. Picking on other things since its a Lexus that handles fantastic whereas in the past the first thing people picked on is the lack of sport.

Heads are exploding since the IS F, LFA, FRS/86/BRZ and now the GS are offering cars for drivers. Shame the badge "Toyota/Lexus" is making people come up with every reason in the world why they still suck or are not desirable.

I've been flat out honest I want a GS 450h F-sport (which is not sold here) or a GS F. So i'm surely not happy here. Even with me being unhappy with what I want, it doesn't stop me from being happy with what Lexus has accomplished here.

B/C outside of a V-8 and exterior styling issues, the new GS is a ****ing home run.

jjscsix

Like I said above, I have no problem with the fact that different people have different views on the subject.

As to your question about not seeing where Lexus is acting like they have built the Holy Grail, I suggest you look at some of the current car magazines that have four page adds for the Lexus comparing it's performance against the BMW 535 and Mercedes E350 Sport. The opening page says "Taking on the competition - 2013 Lexus GS F Sport challenge". Then you open it up and it shows performance comparisons of the cars. The last page has a fair amount of verbiage about the car, singling out its "emotional appeal that reaches out to driving enthusiasts".

I think if they were serious about that they would have given the car more power and the 8 speed transmission. They just don't seem fully committed yet. That's not to say it's not a fine car, but to me it still comes up short of taking on some of the other sport sedans in the same segment. To further what I said above, the Genesis V6 now has about 30 hp more than the Lexus AND better fuel economy (helped by the 8 speed standard in that car).

I guess my point is that if they are going for the gold and coming out with an all new model, why isn't it competitive in the engine department? They left too much on the table for an all new car designed to go after the enthusiasts.

GSfsport

I Agree. I enjoyed the car and the overall feel of the gs and f sport. im not caring for speed because i rather cruise when i drive, knowing i have the agility to go around the bends at higher speed put a smile on my face

natnut

Seriously, THAT"S your argument that Lexus isn't sporty???? Grandmother stories and Paris Hilton???
While completely ignoring the fact that the GS is putting down better handling numbers than the Germans(objective evidence) and both professional and lay-people testers are rating the GS F-sport as more confident-inspiring in the autocross than the 535i/E350 (subjective evidence)?
Also ignoring the fact that respected car mags like EVO have rated the LFA as a better driver's car than the flagship Ferrari 599/Lambo Aventador?
And what about ISF or FT86?

But somehow street sayings and Miss Hilton have clinched the argument for you....

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

There will always be people that will call Lexus a sofa...... Even if you try to explain and throw all kind of facts, it won't help. They'll just call it a sporty sofa. I've learned to ignore such comments.

great review!! Thanks for sharing the info. I have not driven the car myself just yet, perhaps I'll stop by the dealer sometime next week. Unfortunately, we don't have any RWD's around here and I'm not that interested in AWD's sigh...

rominl

iTrader: (4)

if that's how narrow minded you are then there is really no need to go any further. i mean, basically most ferraris and lamborghinis aren't worth crap because the gtr can run around them just fine. so yes, none of those brands should even label anything performance about their cars.

i like other brands. i had a 08 m3 for crying out loud. but that doesn't make me give any less respect to lexus and mb and audi for their efforts on performance. if you label all the cars just by their brand names before even giving them a dry and actually drive the cars? that's where the discussion should end

definitely go drive it. since day 1, i said i want to drive this car, and i am glad i did. it brings back my long lost feeling on driving my gs400

Dema

I disagree with those who complain about performance. It is adequate and not lacking to BMW. Yes, sure Audi A6 is faster with same engine league but car is $20K more expensive in configuration you will wish to take it. So GS is right car with right performance. If you want racing car, then buy ISF.

jjscsix

First a disclaimer, I have not driven the new Lexus yet, and have driven some, but not many of the direct competitors (I rode in, but did not drive a brand new M-Sport 535 a few days ago). But as a general comment, "objective" handing numbers often do not tell the whole story, or even much of a story. It's very easy to make a car that puts down good objective handling numbers - stiff suspension and sticky tires is all that takes because the magazines do that sort of testing on skidpads that are very smooth and consistent, and ditto slaloms. The real world of either the streets or race tracks is frequently not as kind to many cars.

I'm not saying the F Sport won't hold up to that scrutiny, but I am saying we don't know yet.

natnut

Sorry but you're not being very consistent here. First you judged the GS as "not-a-performance" car as it did not meet a certain number (400hp) without having driven the car but when I pull out performance handling numbers, you now say that numbers don't tell the whole story. Or are you saying that power/hp figures tell the full story but not handling figures?

But I get your point about magazine racing. The best assessment is when one gets behind the wheel and actually drives the car personally. Which is probably the point I've been trying to make: falling back on tired old stereotypes, depending on paper numbers, judging a car/brand by who drives it, all are equally unreliable in making a fair assessment and smacks of intellectual dishonesty/laziness.