energie8

Back on topic, the new ES looks jacked up and beefy. Overall the style is not bad, better than the last gen forsure. But not my type of vehicle, 4GS it is!!

*Batman*

Well said. That's why I share opinions here too. I am hoping they get to Corporate so a better product comes down the line.

LexFather

Most people on the internet bash Lexus endlessly, I see it all the time for a decade. Its no biggie, its to be expected. You see the 20% or so elsewhere share their comments and good experiences and fair points and they are jumped on for daring to like Lexus. Its not even legit commentary its childish non enthusiast points like "OMG its CAMRY" or "OMG ITS BORING" or "OMG RECALL" and basic dumb comments. Read Autoblog for example let alone anywhere else. Have you read the new ES commentary? Its the same dumb **** from people over and over "OMG ITS CAMRY" or "OMG ITS OLD PEOPLE" or "OMG ITS BORING". We have yet to see the ES in pics and we should await full judgement until so. I think many of us do agree the rear profile is very well done, the front is of course controversial but overall it seems like a nice design. The GS is tough b/c its "FIRST", the first with the new face and the new design direction. Lexus usually is quick to tweak designs. The 3GS debuted L-finesse and everything after was pretty damn decent. Lets hope the same for the 4GS.

No one said the 3GS was a grand slam home run. People are completely incorrect trying to paint it as a car that sold poorly the entire time. That is not the truth. Don't confuse stating facts as trying to imply something. We area all well aware of 3GS opportunities, no one said it was the golden car of its class.

It didn't take a rocket scientist to say the HS would flop, we all knew it, no one debated that. OMG, one Lexus product flops every ten years,lets beat it up. It was pathetic seeing people jump in the HS forum with no interest in the car just to bash the car, just like is happening here. The HS owners were frustrated seeing it in their forum and were tired of it. The HS was sadly a grand opportunity for Lexus haters to jump on the brand and rip it to shreds. They don't mention successes, period. These are my observations which clearly hold weight than more anyone here.

Those aren't really rocket science predictions and the GS won't flop like the TL. The GS sales goal is 24,000 this year, The GS is not Lexus volume car, the ES and RS are. if the GS sells 11-12,000, then it is a flop like the TL. And again the TL is not GS competition so who cares.

One thing I said years ago was maybe Lexus will try a two tiered strategy with the ES/GS and maybe CT/IS and then LS. It seems the ES is significantly upgraded just looking at pics. I am really unsure if Lexus has done enough to warrant the price of the GS when the ES debuts, especially with no V-8 offering.

natnut

I agree with your first bolded statement. The 3GS sold well INITIALLY based off the hype alone of a new product and its admittedly stylish design.But the good sales weren't sustained because it was poor utility and most people shopping in this segment want both utlity and design with a bias towards utility(my opinion).

Where we differ is your 2nd bolded statement.

What's the difference between the 4GS and the 3GS that will cause the 4GS to escape the poor longterm sales of the 3GS? Scratch the surface of the 3GS and beneath the stylish design is a car with poor fundamentals : numb steering/poor handling(even Lexus engineers have admitted this), poorly thought-out interior ergonomics and again poor utlity.

A person who wanted a coupe design GT would get a CLS/6 series. A person who wanted a luxurious but affordable non-SUV people carrier would get an ES(or an E-class if he had a bigger budget). A person who wanted a sporty good handling mid-size sedan would get a 5 series. That left the 3GS up ****s creek with no paddle.No wonder sales tapered off so abruptly in later years.

Contrast that with the 4GS. For the first time in years,it arguably beats the 5 series in handling and driving enjoyment, it is now a viable people carrier for a nuclear family, its interior is now a joy to sit in and behold--in short, the 4GS fundamentals are there and it is a solid all-rounder. Fundamentals are IMHO what will keep a car's sales consistent. Which is why I am optimistic about longterm GS sales.

Mr. Burns

3GS did respectably well in its first 3 years:

2005: 33,457
2006: 27,390
2007: 23,381
2008: 15,759

2007-2008 is where the drop happened, about the time the ES went on sale, and the financial crisis took hold. I think a lot of buyers failed to see the GS as a compelling alternative to the ES. They should be better differentiated now with the 4GS.

*Batman*

My hypothesis is that the 2GS had a huge user base and a lot of those people switched to 3GS by default (i.e. not thinking about it). Once those upgraders were done, the car struggled to win re-upgrades or new customers from other brands.

I also think a lot of it was quirky things which I didn't think about when I test drove the GS460 but which annoyed the hell out of me for the 2.5 years I drove that car:
1) There is no fixed display of the internal temperature setting, even though there is a fixed display of the external temperature. I mean what were they thinking! That you need to constantly be aware of the external temperature, but you have no interest in knowing what the climate control is set to?
2) No memory buttons for audio system except via touch screen which requires you to press Audio
3) Moving the armrest to change the ECT and Suspension modes
4) Barely usable trunk
And several others I shouldn't bore you with. Point is it was quirky and not well thought out.

spwolf

well most people didnt like GS because it has poor ergonomics and outdated multimedia, it came out too early and competition swept it away later on, looking smarter and more sophisticated... lack of Lexus updates and not willing to play with pricing, did as well. Most people lease there cars, and when you can lease 10k more expensive car, for less, I sure will jump on that deal. 3GS was simply outdated vehicle, even back in 2009.

I think 4GS is huge improvement in every way. Well everyone thinks that :-). For one, both subjectively and objectively, everyone rates it as best handler out there... thats first for a lexus and means a lot.

Chrome strip on the grille extending few inches lower or having to move armrest to change to Sport, those are really minor things that i dont think impacted anything really.

bigblack06

iTrader: (20)

I like the styling of the new ES but now I'm wondering if the LS will have a dramtic change as this looks a little LS in the rear, and I gotta say this interior is nice especially since these are the loaners they give us. I would still take a GS over a ES. It looks wider or is that my imagination. I'm glad Lexus is stepping there game up, let the haters hate at the end of the day Lexus is making a good product.

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

Just wanted to say I still love the Lexus products. That may not last forever. I love coupes. Because of my size, I actually need a coupe. I need lot's of legroom. Midsize sedans sometimes lack the room I need because they have to have enough backseat space to accomodate adults. Most coupes could care less about the back seat space.
It's also easier getting in and out out coupes because the door and door-space is more plentiful. I have scraped a hole in the material of my door getting my big butt in and out.
I really don't care about these sedans. As long as they make a nice coupe, I'll be okay. I do have to keep some interest for sedans because my wife will always have them. If she changes her mind about the new design, we may end up having one...but it has to get a little better looking.

Screw all this talk about ES's and GS's. Give me a coupe Lexus!

natnut

I can agree with this!(But I'll probably always have a GS in my garage. I have this unexplainable love affair for sporty sedans)

But I find it a bit hard to understand why you keep commenting on the 4GS when when you self-admittedly aren't interested in sport-sedans anymore.

For example, even though I really have strong negative feelings against the 3GS, I don't bother hanging around the 3GS sub-forum to bemoan it's wretched interior space, its unuseable trunk or its numb steering/poor high speed stability.

The only reason I even bring up the 3GS is to remind people how good a product they're getting with the 4GS in contrast to the rubbish product that is the 3GS.

Blackraven

You know what interestingly............I too wasn't a fan of the 3GS at first (years ago). In fact, I kept telling internet fanboys that the Infiniti M would eat a 3rd-gen Lexus GS for breakfast. I felt that the Infiniti M (or Nissan Fuga for some people) looks sportier, more dynamic and more inspiring than a 3GS.

That kinda changed though when Lexus Manila opened their doors in year 2009.........and the first car brought in was a facelifted 3GS: the GS460.

My negativity started to decrease and I found that it looked better than in internet pics. So there.

Anyways:
These retarded wheels are ruining that F-sport (or any GS F-sport that has these atrocious rims)





Why can't we get these instead?



@natunut

I presume the F-sport units that will arrive in Singapore (Lexus Singapore/Borneo Motors) will also be getting these ugly-*** mother****ers?

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

I keep commenting because I'm torn.
I love Lexus products. I started out with a 95 SC3oo. It was the car I always wanted. After 6 years I sold it. To this day I still miss her. My only problem was the power. It was too slow. I see the guys turboing their SC have problem after problem and there was no way I'd get into that. I like na power. So I let her go.

The 3GS has that coupe-like silouette and stylish design that won me over.
The 4GS has lost some of that coupe-likeness but you just can't not be curious and interested in the next model. Plus, my wife may want another GS one day. She also may like the new ES so I was very interested in the comments and comparison of this thread.

I want Lexus to know some of us don't like it.

Lastly, Lexus is hard-headed. What if they never build a coupe in the 50-60K range. I'd have to buy another GS or go elsewhere. I'm really torn about that.

Even if I never had a GS or have no intention of ever buying one, I can comment on anything I want. I hope that answers your question.


PS: Note that I have no reply regarding your comment about the 3GS being rubbish. That's your opinion. You're welcome to it.

LIMS407

ICE, just get the 4GS already,,,u know u want it,,,i will black out the wheels for you,,,lol

*Batman*

Nothing wrong with going elsewhere. There are many car manufacturers with great reputations, and superior engineering heritage.

I was open to getting another V8 GS if they made it and offered a decent styling.

Once they announced the V6 only ugly duckling 4GS, I put my BMW 550i into production. And I am really happy with it. Lexus has never made a car of that calibre.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

agreed. there are some people who have nothing better to do than hate a high quality, luxurious but somewhat limited and somewhat bland brand, but i doubt there's many.

i think the 4GS will do 'ok' (kinda like 3GS) until the 6ES comes out.
rest seems reasonable too.

most people on the internet couldn't care less. see above.

that's like saying most people bash acura and honda, your favorites.

well, unicorns, beaks and other comments about honda and acura aren't exactly enlightened either.

such events are hardly unique to lexus. remember the 1st gen MB ML320 from 'bama? junk!
or who can forget this gen acura rl and the haterade it's taken?
or ford still living with stigma from the 80s and hate to this day?
and on and on...

maybe i misunderstand but you're saying your observations hold more weight than anyone here?

anyway, back on the GS, i would say the concensus is that the interior and handling are home runs, but the exterior is mixed to bad. i don't think that's 'most people bashing lexus'. i've told you a million times, don't exaggerate

well, i think so - rwd/awd is obviously a big diff., but the GS will likely continue to be a niche product vs. the big seller ES.

ok, but i highly doubt there will be a GS coupe. most likely a replacement for SC.