So much for predictions of the 4GS being a flop
06-11-12, 01:30 PM
#181
Lexus Fanatic
To start you off on some reading:
Forbes Magazine:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebuss...a-vwaudi-booz/
Interesting Bloomberg article about Kia cannabalizing Hyundai sales (Hyundai owns Kia):
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...ints-cars.html
An exerpt:
Still small in market share in relation to Toyota, but gaining while Toyota is stagnant or shrinking. In no article written about Hyundai in the past 5 years you'll find the word "flop".
Forbes Magazine:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebuss...a-vwaudi-booz/
U.S. auto executives, surveyed by Booz & Co., named Hyundai and Kia, and Volkswagen and Audi, as the OEMs most likely to pick up share in the American market over the next five years. Of the poll of 200 senior executives of automakers and top-tier suppliers, 88 percent lent Hyundai/Kia their highest expectations for market share, and 72 percent cited Volkswagen/Audi.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...ints-cars.html
An exerpt:
The two Seoul-based companies sold a record number of vehicles in 2011 and their shares outperformed all other major carmakers.
Hyundai and Kia rose 23 percent and 32 percent, respectively, in Seoul trading during 2011, the only two companies to gain on the 28-member Bloomberg World Auto Manufacturers Index.
06-11-12, 02:56 PM
#182
Did you read what 1SICKLEX posted that the Genesis sales goal was 2,000-3,000 units per year?
I'm not building the car or setting the target!
Seeing that you didnt even know the car existed yesterday I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't have enough experience to speak to the quality of the product. Go drive one...you'll be surprised. There's an LS owner here, his handle is "Kansas". He's owned the LS since 1990, he prefers the Equus to the LS460. Like I and 1SICK said, when the manufacturer sets a sales goal of 2-3k units a year, and its selling 300 units a month, it met their expectation. 300X12= 3,200.
I feel like I'm completely bringing you up to speed on everything that has happened in the auto industry over the last 10 years
I know that Hyundai has been around a long time. But about the middle of the last decade they began improving the quality of their products, offering a great warranty, and really building some compelling cars. The story is that resurgance, not what Hyundai may have been 20-30 years ago. Since the mid-late 2000s, Hyundai has really been doing well...sales are way up...quality figures are way up...brand loyalty is way up. Read some comparison tests, go drive the cars for yourself.
In the 70s Toyota sold only economy cars, and very lowly regarded economy cars at that, but all of that has changed. Same sort of thing is going on with Hyundai.
I'm not building the car or setting the target!
Seeing that you didnt even know the car existed yesterday I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't have enough experience to speak to the quality of the product. Go drive one...you'll be surprised. There's an LS owner here, his handle is "Kansas". He's owned the LS since 1990, he prefers the Equus to the LS460. Like I and 1SICK said, when the manufacturer sets a sales goal of 2-3k units a year, and its selling 300 units a month, it met their expectation. 300X12= 3,200.
I feel like I'm completely bringing you up to speed on everything that has happened in the auto industry over the last 10 years
I know that Hyundai has been around a long time. But about the middle of the last decade they began improving the quality of their products, offering a great warranty, and really building some compelling cars. The story is that resurgance, not what Hyundai may have been 20-30 years ago. Since the mid-late 2000s, Hyundai has really been doing well...sales are way up...quality figures are way up...brand loyalty is way up. Read some comparison tests, go drive the cars for yourself.
In the 70s Toyota sold only economy cars, and very lowly regarded economy cars at that, but all of that has changed. Same sort of thing is going on with Hyundai.
Oh well, set yourself a low target, and give yourself a pat on the back.
The Sonata's been competing against the Camry since 1988, and now still cheaper, but only 60% the sales; give yourself a pat on the back...
Last edited by peteharvey; 06-11-12 at 03:00 PM.
06-11-12, 03:04 PM
#183
Lexus Fanatic
LMAO. You know everything, I give up.
Sheesh
Sheesh
06-11-12, 03:08 PM
#184
2000-3000 units per year target for the Hyundai Equus is nonsense.
These are US sales only; not global.
Do you see what I mean by deliberately setting a super low target?
That's why I'd stop short of giving myself a pat on the back...
Last edited by peteharvey; 06-11-12 at 03:12 PM.
06-11-12, 03:17 PM
#185
Lexus Fanatic
I'm going to be sorry I didn't stick to what I said and give up lol...
Absolutely I know the LS sold 42,806 units its first year, it also was $25,000-$35,000 cheaper than anything remotely comparable, and it was an entirely different marketplace back then, MUCH less crowded. Remember too what 1SICK said, Lexus spent a BILLION DOLLARS (thats 1980s billion dollars too) developing the LS, a huge financial gamble. Toyota saw a hole in the marketplace and took advantage of it, and they did a fabulous job. There's not really a hole like that right now...and Hyundai is coming from a position of far less strength, no dealer network to fund and build, and I guarantee you they didn't spend no billion dollars.
Success is a relative thing, you're making it out to be far simpler than it is.
Again, seeing that you didn't even know they were selling a Genesis or Equus sedan at all two days ago, I don't think you know enough about the situation to say that the company's projections are "nonsense".
They sell the car in Korea, its very popular with businessmen who have drivers (very common in Asia). Bringing it here is an experiment. Its not designed for the American market the way the LS was. If it meets their expectations, maybe the next model will be.
Anyways, if Hyundai was so upset about its performance, why are they bringing the big luxury Kia sedan here as well next year?
Absolutely I know the LS sold 42,806 units its first year, it also was $25,000-$35,000 cheaper than anything remotely comparable, and it was an entirely different marketplace back then, MUCH less crowded. Remember too what 1SICK said, Lexus spent a BILLION DOLLARS (thats 1980s billion dollars too) developing the LS, a huge financial gamble. Toyota saw a hole in the marketplace and took advantage of it, and they did a fabulous job. There's not really a hole like that right now...and Hyundai is coming from a position of far less strength, no dealer network to fund and build, and I guarantee you they didn't spend no billion dollars.
Success is a relative thing, you're making it out to be far simpler than it is.
2000-3000 units per year target for the Equus is nonsense.
They sell the car in Korea, its very popular with businessmen who have drivers (very common in Asia). Bringing it here is an experiment. Its not designed for the American market the way the LS was. If it meets their expectations, maybe the next model will be.
Anyways, if Hyundai was so upset about its performance, why are they bringing the big luxury Kia sedan here as well next year?
Last edited by SW17LS; 06-11-12 at 03:20 PM.
06-11-12, 05:21 PM
#186
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by CarandDriver
If this über-Hyundai isn’t a hit, however, it won’t be for lack of sedulous benchmarking. When Korean engineers set about copying the modern LS, they swallowed their inventiveness and simply deployed a really good Xerox machine. Consider: In length, width, height, and front and rear track, the Equus and Lexus LS460L are cut from common cloth. In our sound-level measurements, they differ by a max of one decibel. Their 70-mph braking potential is separated by 12 inches. Their skidpad clinginess hovers within two-hundredths of a g. Their acceleration to 30, 60, and 100 mph varies by but a tenth. Their elapsed times through the quarter-mile are identical. Their 4.6-liter V-8s differ in displacement by one cubic inch.
None of that is a coincidence. What we have here is LS Launch Redux, Seoul-cookin’ style.
None of that is a coincidence. What we have here is LS Launch Redux, Seoul-cookin’ style.
I think unfortunately we're never going to really be able to see what they could do in the luxury market because they cheaped out and didn't invest in the marque and dealer network the way Lexus did. I think that will, more than anything keep them from success in the US. But, I think they're on their way to being a game changer in the mainstream marketplace.
Now think what type of Equus Hyundai would need to make its own separate luxury brand work. It's not the Equus we have now. It may even be impossible to build the car they need for a reasonable cost, which is probably at least partly why they aren't bothering with a separate luxury brand.
06-11-12, 05:39 PM
#187
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
OK guys, WAY off topic here. Think we've had enough of the Hyundai discussion in a 4GS sales thread and folks are continuing an argumentative approach.
Please back to the 4GS and keep it polite and mature.
Please back to the 4GS and keep it polite and mature.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 06-11-12 at 05:43 PM.
06-11-12, 06:39 PM
#188
I've said this before and I'll say it again. If Lexus bring the 4GS with power trunk and power mirrors like some part of the world to the US, they'll get a +1 for there sale from me.
06-11-12, 06:41 PM
#189
Guest
Posts: n/a
Getting back to sales again lol the GS is meeting/exceeding sales goals and currently at 2k a month on target and the solid 3rd place seller in class.
For comparison the M37/56 is only 2 years young, never met sales targets with sales plummeting to under 1000 units many months, even with a superb V-8. Dealers call it the Q45 all over again as the model doesn't sell. Now the A6 is outselling it.
So Lexus so far is doing very well with the GS. Sales IMO will stay solid for summer with a big Nov/Dec with the yearly aggressive "December to remember" sales event.
For comparison the M37/56 is only 2 years young, never met sales targets with sales plummeting to under 1000 units many months, even with a superb V-8. Dealers call it the Q45 all over again as the model doesn't sell. Now the A6 is outselling it.
So Lexus so far is doing very well with the GS. Sales IMO will stay solid for summer with a big Nov/Dec with the yearly aggressive "December to remember" sales event.
06-12-12, 07:06 AM
#190
Racer
I think the 4gs is doing wonderful for right now but the true test to me will be in 3 to 4 years from now. The Infiniti M exterior is a turn off. I think they screwed up the exterior of that car so it wasn't going to sell from the very begin. On another note anyone that thinks Lexus doesn't want to sell more 4gs than their competitors is fooling themselves. If I compare the 4gs to the 5 series and E class its true competitors it’s a flop. No one comes in the game to be number 3.
For example I’m running a 5k this weekend, yes I know I may not finish first but I’m dam sure aiming to be first.
If not I can run around the track for 3.5 miles and call it a day.
Lexus wants to be number 1 in every segment just like any other car company but do it in a smart way. The American economy has made Lexus into what it is today so stop half *** us on options, engine choices, and coupes.
For example I’m running a 5k this weekend, yes I know I may not finish first but I’m dam sure aiming to be first.
If not I can run around the track for 3.5 miles and call it a day.
Lexus wants to be number 1 in every segment just like any other car company but do it in a smart way. The American economy has made Lexus into what it is today so stop half *** us on options, engine choices, and coupes.
Last edited by rogers2; 06-12-12 at 09:09 AM.
06-12-12, 12:55 PM
#191
They want to be number 1, but it's just a matter of getting the product right.
In 3 to 4 years from now, it will probably be as shaky as always.
Don't forget the ES is competing against the GS too.
Plus, the Camry is in a competitive market, such that the Camry based ES gets a short 5 year model cycle, while the GS traditionally has a 7 year model cycle.
And the Germans who are on 7 year model cycles, have said they will reduce that to 6...
Last edited by peteharvey; 06-12-12 at 08:11 PM.
06-12-12, 07:50 PM
#192
I think the 4gs is doing wonderful for right now but the true test to me will be in 3 to 4 years from now. The Infiniti M exterior is a turn off. I think they screwed up the exterior of that car so it wasn't going to sell from the very begin. On another note anyone that thinks Lexus doesn't want to sell more 4gs than their competitors is fooling themselves. If I compare the 4gs to the 5 series and E class its true competitors it’s a flop. No one comes in the game to be number 3.
For example I’m running a 5k this weekend, yes I know I may not finish first but I’m dam sure aiming to be first.
If not I can run around the track for 3.5 miles and call it a day.
Lexus wants to be number 1 in every segment just like any other car company but do it in a smart way. The American economy has made Lexus into what it is today so stop half *** us on options, engine choices, and coupes.
For example I’m running a 5k this weekend, yes I know I may not finish first but I’m dam sure aiming to be first.
If not I can run around the track for 3.5 miles and call it a day.
Lexus wants to be number 1 in every segment just like any other car company but do it in a smart way. The American economy has made Lexus into what it is today so stop half *** us on options, engine choices, and coupes.
06-12-12, 08:41 PM
#193
Pole Position
On another note anyone that thinks Lexus doesn't want to sell more 4gs than their competitors is fooling themselves. If I compare the 4gs to the 5 series and E class its true competitors it’s a flop. No one comes in the game to be number 3.
For example I’m running a 5k this weekend, yes I know I may not finish first but I’m dam sure aiming to be first.
If not I can run around the track for 3.5 miles and call it a day.
Lexus wants to be number 1 in every segment just like any other car company but do it in a smart way. The American economy has made Lexus into what it is today so stop half *** us on options, engine choices, and coupes.
For example I’m running a 5k this weekend, yes I know I may not finish first but I’m dam sure aiming to be first.
If not I can run around the track for 3.5 miles and call it a day.
Lexus wants to be number 1 in every segment just like any other car company but do it in a smart way. The American economy has made Lexus into what it is today so stop half *** us on options, engine choices, and coupes.
I would like to see (and define success as) being highly competitive with the BMW 5 series. I fear that the GS is continuing to weaken in its ability to be in the same consideration set of these kind of buyers. The sales volumes and Toyota's own expectations perhaps reflect this reality.
07-03-12, 11:44 AM
#194
Guest
Posts: n/a
Feb-2396
March-2558
April-2006
May-1996
June-2020
Sales are holding steady thus far. Not sure how many are GS 450hs but the sales expectation is 10% of sales so around 200 a month and seems so far not many are on dealer lots.
Comparison
5-5,374 (included 5GT wagon thing)
E-class ____ (includes coupes)
GS-2,020
A6-1,745
MKS-1,091
M35/37/56-818
RL-32
March-2558
April-2006
May-1996
June-2020
Sales are holding steady thus far. Not sure how many are GS 450hs but the sales expectation is 10% of sales so around 200 a month and seems so far not many are on dealer lots.
Comparison
5-5,374 (included 5GT wagon thing)
E-class ____ (includes coupes)
GS-2,020
A6-1,745
MKS-1,091
M35/37/56-818
RL-32
07-03-12, 12:16 PM
#195
So initial roughly 2500 per month for the first 2 months.
Now down to 2000 per month steady.
But I also wonder how sibling ES doing?
Now down to 2000 per month steady.
But I also wonder how sibling ES doing?