So much for predictions of the 4GS being a flop
08-07-12, 10:36 PM
#241
On the other hand, GS450h is in very tight supply so they are not advertising it until they get more of them. In Canada for July, GS350 is 2nd shortest selling car on the lot, which means supply problems hence lack of advertising.
I just checked their website, and GS has no special APR and it is actually cheaper to lease 535i than base GS350, despite 535i being $9k more expensive.
08-08-12, 04:00 AM
#242
they are not in business of winning forum wars but selling cars... Lexus advertises what they sell - they have loads of ES's they want to get rid of in this event, so they are advertising it. They had 2 months of inventory of old ES and new one is coming Now. Same will happen with LS, as they have a lot of them and will need to unload them.
On the other hand, GS450h is in very tight supply so they are not advertising it until they get more of them. In Canada for July, GS350 is 2nd shortest selling car on the lot, which means supply problems hence lack of advertising.
I just checked their website, and GS has no special APR and it is actually cheaper to lease 535i than base GS350, despite 535i being $9k more expensive.
On the other hand, GS450h is in very tight supply so they are not advertising it until they get more of them. In Canada for July, GS350 is 2nd shortest selling car on the lot, which means supply problems hence lack of advertising.
I just checked their website, and GS has no special APR and it is actually cheaper to lease 535i than base GS350, despite 535i being $9k more expensive.
.and yes, I did just compare my car to an LF-A!
08-09-12, 09:12 AM
#243
Guest
Posts: n/a
1. The GS is still on target to meet sales goals
2. The GS needs better advertising/marketing
No matter how good/bad the 5/E is, they are going to sell in droves they dominate the segment. Lexus and others go for their piece of the pie. No different than the 3/RX/Camry/F-150 dominating their respective classes.
08-09-12, 09:44 AM
#244
Huh? My statement is just a statement, its not trying to make an excuse as you are misinterpreting it. All I'm saying is
1. The GS is still on target to meet sales goals
2. The GS needs better advertising/marketing
No matter how good/bad the 5/E is, they are going to sell in droves they dominate the segment. Lexus and others go for their piece of the pie. No different than the 3/RX/Camry/F-150 dominating their respective classes.
1. The GS is still on target to meet sales goals
2. The GS needs better advertising/marketing
No matter how good/bad the 5/E is, they are going to sell in droves they dominate the segment. Lexus and others go for their piece of the pie. No different than the 3/RX/Camry/F-150 dominating their respective classes.
An excellent example is the E Class vs 5 Series.
Actually, the more a driver's car the 5 Series becomes, the more it undersells the E Class.
In other words, the more sporty the 5 Series becomes, the less it sells.
This segment of the market is not predominated by young sporty buyers.
Rather, sporty enthusiast drivers are a small niche.
This luxo segment is predominated by more mature buyers, who prefer a luxo car.
It is good to make a car sporty to satisfy the enthusiast niche.
However, at the same time, we have to balance the fact that good sales are required to generate incomes for both the manufacturers and the dealers.
The better the car sells, the more money the manufacturer can pour back into research and development for the next generation of 5GS, not to mention more money for the dealers and sales reps too.
Thus, we have to push the 4GS to do at least 33,500 units in its first year to equal, or better the old 3GS, otherwise in 5 years time, we may be stuck with another six speed auto in the 5GS.
So we can niche a car for sporty enthusiasts, but if it doesn't sell to the mainstream market to generate income and pour money back into R&D, then the car is in trouble.
The new 4GS is looking that way.
They should have made two (2) separate body designs in the 4GS: a mainstream boxy model with a soft ride and the normal sound insulation, and a four door coupe with a sportier set up and less sound insulation.
This two pronged attack would work better for sales, to keep both the mainstream market, and the sporty enthusiasts market happy.
That's why Benz has the E Class and the CLS, while BM has the 5 and 6 Series, and Audi has the A6 and A7; the 4GS is missing out, as usual.
A 4GS two door coupe won't solve the problem.
A 4GS four door coupe would have been better!
[The old 3GS was actually a swoopy four door coupe, but its body structure was designed more for the smaller shorter wheelbase IS, so the longer wheelbase 3GS lacked torsional rigidity and bending stiffness to use firmer springs for sharper steering - nee faster changes in direction].
Lexus needs to really pull its fingers out...
Last edited by peteharvey; 08-09-12 at 10:14 AM.
08-09-12, 05:27 PM
#245
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
well as we've discussed many times, lexus chose to break the segment into 2 models (gs/es) and the combined sales are just fine (in fact very good) and the new es should give it a great bump, without hopefully too much impact on gs.
08-09-12, 08:09 PM
#246
Guest
Posts: n/a
Those models you listed, and their supremacy in sales, is not due to an act of Godliness, but due to superior design to meet the demands of the market.
An excellent example is the E Class vs 5 Series.
Actually, the more a driver's car the 5 Series becomes, the more it undersells the E Class.
In other words, the more sporty the 5 Series becomes, the less it sells.
This segment of the market is not predominated by young sporty buyers.
Rather, sporty enthusiast drivers are a small niche.
This luxo segment is predominated by more mature buyers, who prefer a luxo car.
It is good to make a car sporty to satisfy the enthusiast niche.
However, at the same time, we have to balance the fact that good sales are required to generate incomes for both the manufacturers and the dealers.
The better the car sells, the more money the manufacturer can pour back into research and development for the next generation of 5GS, not to mention more money for the dealers and sales reps too.
Thus, we have to push the 4GS to do at least 33,500 units in its first year to equal, or better the old 3GS, otherwise in 5 years time, we may be stuck with another six speed auto in the 5GS.
So we can niche a car for sporty enthusiasts, but if it doesn't sell to the mainstream market to generate income and pour money back into R&D, then the car is in trouble.
The new 4GS is looking that way.
They should have made two (2) separate body designs in the 4GS: a mainstream boxy model with a soft ride and the normal sound insulation, and a four door coupe with a sportier set up and less sound insulation.
This two pronged attack would work better for sales, to keep both the mainstream market, and the sporty enthusiasts market happy.
That's why Benz has the E Class and the CLS, while BM has the 5 and 6 Series, and Audi has the A6 and A7; the 4GS is missing out, as usual.
A 4GS two door coupe won't solve the problem.
A 4GS four door coupe would have been better!
[The old 3GS was actually a swoopy four door coupe, but its body structure was designed more for the smaller shorter wheelbase IS, so the longer wheelbase 3GS lacked torsional rigidity and bending stiffness to use firmer springs for sharper steering - nee faster changes in direction].
Lexus needs to really pull its fingers out...
An excellent example is the E Class vs 5 Series.
Actually, the more a driver's car the 5 Series becomes, the more it undersells the E Class.
In other words, the more sporty the 5 Series becomes, the less it sells.
This segment of the market is not predominated by young sporty buyers.
Rather, sporty enthusiast drivers are a small niche.
This luxo segment is predominated by more mature buyers, who prefer a luxo car.
It is good to make a car sporty to satisfy the enthusiast niche.
However, at the same time, we have to balance the fact that good sales are required to generate incomes for both the manufacturers and the dealers.
The better the car sells, the more money the manufacturer can pour back into research and development for the next generation of 5GS, not to mention more money for the dealers and sales reps too.
Thus, we have to push the 4GS to do at least 33,500 units in its first year to equal, or better the old 3GS, otherwise in 5 years time, we may be stuck with another six speed auto in the 5GS.
So we can niche a car for sporty enthusiasts, but if it doesn't sell to the mainstream market to generate income and pour money back into R&D, then the car is in trouble.
The new 4GS is looking that way.
They should have made two (2) separate body designs in the 4GS: a mainstream boxy model with a soft ride and the normal sound insulation, and a four door coupe with a sportier set up and less sound insulation.
This two pronged attack would work better for sales, to keep both the mainstream market, and the sporty enthusiasts market happy.
That's why Benz has the E Class and the CLS, while BM has the 5 and 6 Series, and Audi has the A6 and A7; the 4GS is missing out, as usual.
A 4GS two door coupe won't solve the problem.
A 4GS four door coupe would have been better!
[The old 3GS was actually a swoopy four door coupe, but its body structure was designed more for the smaller shorter wheelbase IS, so the longer wheelbase 3GS lacked torsional rigidity and bending stiffness to use firmer springs for sharper steering - nee faster changes in direction].
Lexus needs to really pull its fingers out...
I hope they manage the 2k a month they need and I don't care about them hitting 5k a month, its impossible. I just hope the other Asian brands sell better to make the Japanese front seem stronger whereas today its just the GS
What is great is no matter if we like the looks or not, the GS really has it together in most cases this generation and is arguably the best driving car in class.
08-09-12, 08:13 PM
#247
Those models you listed, and their supremacy in sales, is not due to an act of Godliness, but due to superior design to meet the demands of the market.
An excellent example is the E Class vs 5 Series.
Actually, the more a driver's car the 5 Series becomes, the more it undersells the E Class.
In other words, the more sporty the 5 Series becomes, the less it sells.
This segment of the market is not predominated by young sporty buyers.
Rather, sporty enthusiast drivers are a small niche.
This luxo segment is predominated by more mature buyers, who prefer a luxo car.
It is good to make a car sporty to satisfy the enthusiast niche.
However, at the same time, we have to balance the fact that good sales are required to generate incomes for both the manufacturers and the dealers.
The better the car sells, the more money the manufacturer can pour back into research and development for the next generation of 5GS, not to mention more money for the dealers and sales reps too.
Thus, we have to push the 4GS to do at least 33,500 units in its first year to equal, or better the old 3GS, otherwise in 5 years time, we may be stuck with another six speed auto in the 5GS.
So we can niche a car for sporty enthusiasts, but if it doesn't sell to the mainstream market to generate income and pour money back into R&D, then the car is in trouble.
The new 4GS is looking that way.
They should have made two (2) separate body designs in the 4GS: a mainstream boxy model with a soft ride and the normal sound insulation, and a four door coupe with a sportier set up and less sound insulation.
This two pronged attack would work better for sales, to keep both the mainstream market, and the sporty enthusiasts market happy.
That's why Benz has the E Class and the CLS, while BM has the 5 and 6 Series, and Audi has the A6 and A7; the 4GS is missing out, as usual.
A 4GS two door coupe won't solve the problem.
A 4GS four door coupe would have been better!
[The old 3GS was actually a swoopy four door coupe, but its body structure was designed more for the smaller shorter wheelbase IS, so the longer wheelbase 3GS lacked torsional rigidity and bending stiffness to use firmer springs for sharper steering - nee faster changes in direction].
Lexus needs to really pull its fingers out...
An excellent example is the E Class vs 5 Series.
Actually, the more a driver's car the 5 Series becomes, the more it undersells the E Class.
In other words, the more sporty the 5 Series becomes, the less it sells.
This segment of the market is not predominated by young sporty buyers.
Rather, sporty enthusiast drivers are a small niche.
This luxo segment is predominated by more mature buyers, who prefer a luxo car.
It is good to make a car sporty to satisfy the enthusiast niche.
However, at the same time, we have to balance the fact that good sales are required to generate incomes for both the manufacturers and the dealers.
The better the car sells, the more money the manufacturer can pour back into research and development for the next generation of 5GS, not to mention more money for the dealers and sales reps too.
Thus, we have to push the 4GS to do at least 33,500 units in its first year to equal, or better the old 3GS, otherwise in 5 years time, we may be stuck with another six speed auto in the 5GS.
So we can niche a car for sporty enthusiasts, but if it doesn't sell to the mainstream market to generate income and pour money back into R&D, then the car is in trouble.
The new 4GS is looking that way.
They should have made two (2) separate body designs in the 4GS: a mainstream boxy model with a soft ride and the normal sound insulation, and a four door coupe with a sportier set up and less sound insulation.
This two pronged attack would work better for sales, to keep both the mainstream market, and the sporty enthusiasts market happy.
That's why Benz has the E Class and the CLS, while BM has the 5 and 6 Series, and Audi has the A6 and A7; the 4GS is missing out, as usual.
A 4GS two door coupe won't solve the problem.
A 4GS four door coupe would have been better!
[The old 3GS was actually a swoopy four door coupe, but its body structure was designed more for the smaller shorter wheelbase IS, so the longer wheelbase 3GS lacked torsional rigidity and bending stiffness to use firmer springs for sharper steering - nee faster changes in direction].
Lexus needs to really pull its fingers out...
Also, if these mature owners are only looking for soft, cushy rides why is every car company showing their cars been driven aggressively during their ads. Why has BMW been successful as The Ultimate Driving Machine? Because these people want to feel like their cars are sporty.
Beyond the "softening" of cars, the even greater paradigm shift that is happening is that people are gridlocked in traffic and really only care about checking e-mail and texting because they can't truly drive, so car companies are racing to be the first with the newest technology. Lexus is doing a pretty good job of keeping up, but Cadillac, with their new CUE system that works like an iPad has really made great strides at attracting this audience. I don't see either BMW or Mercedes advertising this, so it will be interesting to see if their buyers simply remain older or if they attract a younger crowd.
Mercedes and BMW have history and brand cache that will last them for years to come, so I'm sure they will outsell Lexus for some time. However, Lexus is making great strides. I may be in the minority, but I for one am happy to have a car that drives as well as a BMW (when they were at their best) but is as reliable as a Toyota.
Last edited by dseag2; 08-09-12 at 08:23 PM.
08-09-12, 08:34 PM
#248
Guest
Posts: n/a
I
Mercedes and BMW have history and brand cache that will last them for years to come, so I'm sure they will outsell Lexus for some time. However, Lexus is making great strides. I may be in the minority, but I for one am happy to have a car that drives as well as a BMW (when they were at their best) but is as reliable as a Toyota.
Mercedes and BMW have history and brand cache that will last them for years to come, so I'm sure they will outsell Lexus for some time. However, Lexus is making great strides. I may be in the minority, but I for one am happy to have a car that drives as well as a BMW (when they were at their best) but is as reliable as a Toyota.
And one no longer has to add sway bars, and every suspension piece known to mahn to make that happen
08-09-12, 08:40 PM
#249
I agree with you, but at the same time marketing a car like the GS450h will get people in the showroom who may consider other cars. It will also fuel demand for the future when GS sales eventually soften a bit. There's a reason Lexus is still advertising the LF-A in magazines, and it's not to sell more LF-As .
and yes, I did just compare my car to an LF-A!
.and yes, I did just compare my car to an LF-A!
It is hard to imagine, but there are more ESh's on floors right now thn GSh's.
08-10-12, 12:38 AM
#250
I have no argument with the fact that more mature buyers are driving these cars, but developing a soft, cushy car vs. a driver's car is not the reason Benz has the E Class and the CLS. Ditto the 5 and 6 Series and the A6 and A7. The cars are simply styled differently. They drive the same. Someone would only choose an A7 over an A6 because it LOOKS sportier. The true driver's cars are the AMG, M and S models in each of these brands. Lexus took a step toward that by offering a standard GS that is soft and cushy but still competent and a GS F-Sport that is more of a driver's car (although still plenty cushy). They can take it to the next level by offering a GS-F. I think they have produced a fine vehicle for mature drivers who want comfort.
Also, if these mature owners are only looking for soft, cushy rides why is every car company showing their cars been driven aggressively during their ads. Why has BMW been successful as The Ultimate Driving Machine? Because these people want to feel like their cars are sporty.
Beyond the "softening" of cars, the even greater paradigm shift that is happening is that people are gridlocked in traffic and really only care about checking e-mail and texting because they can't truly drive, so car companies are racing to be the first with the newest technology. Lexus is doing a pretty good job of keeping up, but Cadillac, with their new CUE system that works like an iPad has really made great strides at attracting this audience. I don't see either BMW or Mercedes advertising this, so it will be interesting to see if their buyers simply remain older or if they attract a younger crowd.
Mercedes and BMW have history and brand cache that will last them for years to come, so I'm sure they will outsell Lexus for some time. However, Lexus is making great strides. I may be in the minority, but I for one am happy to have a car that drives as well as a BMW (when they were at their best) but is as reliable as a Toyota.
Also, if these mature owners are only looking for soft, cushy rides why is every car company showing their cars been driven aggressively during their ads. Why has BMW been successful as The Ultimate Driving Machine? Because these people want to feel like their cars are sporty.
Beyond the "softening" of cars, the even greater paradigm shift that is happening is that people are gridlocked in traffic and really only care about checking e-mail and texting because they can't truly drive, so car companies are racing to be the first with the newest technology. Lexus is doing a pretty good job of keeping up, but Cadillac, with their new CUE system that works like an iPad has really made great strides at attracting this audience. I don't see either BMW or Mercedes advertising this, so it will be interesting to see if their buyers simply remain older or if they attract a younger crowd.
Mercedes and BMW have history and brand cache that will last them for years to come, so I'm sure they will outsell Lexus for some time. However, Lexus is making great strides. I may be in the minority, but I for one am happy to have a car that drives as well as a BMW (when they were at their best) but is as reliable as a Toyota.
, but 2 points1) audi S is NOT with amg and m. RS series, yes. but S is just a more powerful version of the regular lineup. s4 against 335 and 350, s6 against 550 and e550. m3 / m5 and c63 / e63 would walk away from s4 / s6. now s8 that's a bit more fun
2) regular gs and gs fsport, are you saying the wheels make that much of a difference? a lot of the regular gs has the luxury package in my region and they drive the same as fsport. fsport has a bit harsher ride from the lower profile tires of course
08-10-12, 04:51 AM
#251
Maybe things are picking up. I've seen 3 4GS cars this week....with 2 more days of the week left.
Yesterday i got a chance to fully take in an FSport without traffic congestion interfering. The car was white so I could see every line in the form and the girl driver was not going fast as she approached. She was probably looking at mine....like most 4GS drivers tend to do. Some even try to look like they are not looking, or they quickly look away when I make eye contact. Seems childish to me.
No comment on my impression. Nothing has changed so no use repeating it.
Yesterday i got a chance to fully take in an FSport without traffic congestion interfering. The car was white so I could see every line in the form and the girl driver was not going fast as she approached. She was probably looking at mine....like most 4GS drivers tend to do. Some even try to look like they are not looking, or they quickly look away when I make eye contact. Seems childish to me.
No comment on my impression. Nothing has changed so no use repeating it.
08-10-12, 05:23 PM
#252
Maybe things are picking up. I've seen 3 4GS cars this week....with 2 more days of the week left.
Yesterday i got a chance to fully take in an FSport without traffic congestion interfering. The car was white so I could see every line in the form and the girl driver was not going fast as she approached. She was probably looking at mine....like most 4GS drivers tend to do. Some even try to look like they are not looking, or they quickly look away when I make eye contact. Seems childish to me.
No comment on my impression. Nothing has changed so no use repeating it.
Yesterday i got a chance to fully take in an FSport without traffic congestion interfering. The car was white so I could see every line in the form and the girl driver was not going fast as she approached. She was probably looking at mine....like most 4GS drivers tend to do. Some even try to look like they are not looking, or they quickly look away when I make eye contact. Seems childish to me.
No comment on my impression. Nothing has changed so no use repeating it.
While I'm sure your car is the same, no-one admires it the same way no one admires mine. For the average person, cars are just cars. She wasn't admiring it and then pretending she wasn't.
Sorry dude, I'm not being mean, just stating what I believe is fact
08-10-12, 08:39 PM
#253
good post , but 2 points
1) audi S is NOT with amg and m. RS series, yes. but S is just a more powerful version of the regular lineup. s4 against 335 and 350, s6 against 550 and e550. m3 / m5 and c63 / e63 would walk away from s4 / s6. now s8 that's a bit more fun
2) regular gs and gs fsport, are you saying the wheels make that much of a difference? a lot of the regular gs has the luxury package in my region and they drive the same as fsport. fsport has a bit harsher ride from the lower profile tires of course
, but 2 points1) audi S is NOT with amg and m. RS series, yes. but S is just a more powerful version of the regular lineup. s4 against 335 and 350, s6 against 550 and e550. m3 / m5 and c63 / e63 would walk away from s4 / s6. now s8 that's a bit more fun
2) regular gs and gs fsport, are you saying the wheels make that much of a difference? a lot of the regular gs has the luxury package in my region and they drive the same as fsport. fsport has a bit harsher ride from the lower profile tires of course
My first point about the S was due to the original poster comparing the A6 as a boxy, comfy car and the A7 as a sporty, driver's car. It is the S models that are the drivers cars, althought your point is well taken re: RS models. However, I don't think we have an RS6 or RS7 in the States yet, and I'm not sure we will. The RS6 sold so well the first time around!
Re: the difference in the GS and GS F-Sport, it has the Sport + mode that the luxury doesn't have, which tightens the suspension even more and (in some cases) rear wheel steering. I think there are more differences than just the wheels. I could certainly be wrong because I don't know as much about the Luxury model.
08-10-12, 10:13 PM
#254
dseag2: The non F-Sport Luxury also has the Sport+ mode (at least in Canada, but I believe everywhere else too), as long as you get the Luxury model or higher. AFAIK it's AVS that makes it possible to have Sport+, and in Canada AVS is on almost all trims, except for the most basic.
EDIT: Just confirmed the US website too. You guys have "Premium" and "Luxury" on the website (in addition to F-Sport). Luxury has AVS, Premium doesn't.
EDIT: Just confirmed the US website too. You guys have "Premium" and "Luxury" on the website (in addition to F-Sport). Luxury has AVS, Premium doesn't.
08-10-12, 11:16 PM
#255
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The F-Sport 19" wheels and tires make a big difference. I have a Lux. Model with F-Sport wheels and tires and it made a huge difference. I believe the tires and wheels make the difference in handling of Lux and F-Sports. I also don't think the ride is at all harsh. I was concerned the ride might suffer but it rides great with the 19s" and handles like a dream. F-Sport does have variiable power steering and in a few cases 4-wheel steering.