So much for predictions of the 4GS being a flop
08-11-12, 06:51 AM
#256
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Summary of mechanical advantages a RWD F-Sport GS has over a RWD Luxury GS :
1) 19" staggered rims (in NA and some markets)
2) larger front calipers and (2-piece)rotors with improved air-flow
3) VGRS
4) option of rear wheel steering
5) VDIM is tuned to be less intrusive in the F-Sport
1) 19" staggered rims (in NA and some markets)
2) larger front calipers and (2-piece)rotors with improved air-flow
3) VGRS
4) option of rear wheel steering
5) VDIM is tuned to be less intrusive in the F-Sport
Last edited by natnut; 08-11-12 at 06:56 AM.
08-11-12, 01:29 PM
#257
I love your post. When I got my car I was hoping people would look at me, smile, ask questions. Fact is, a few people have... but mostly because it's a new model, not because it looks sexy or aggressive.
While I'm sure your car is the same, no-one admires it the same way no one admires mine. For the average person, cars are just cars. She wasn't admiring it and then pretending she wasn't.
Sorry dude, I'm not being mean, just stating what I believe is fact
While I'm sure your car is the same, no-one admires it the same way no one admires mine. For the average person, cars are just cars. She wasn't admiring it and then pretending she wasn't.
Sorry dude, I'm not being mean, just stating what I believe is fact
An objective fact - the new 4GS is underselling the old 3GS big time.
The old 3GS amassed 33,457 in its first year of release.
And once the next generation 5GS is released, all the knives will come out for the 4GS.
The early 2010's may be looked back to be NOT the greatest era for Lexus, with Camry recalls in the recent past, followed by obvious cost cutting...
Thanks, and just to clarify:
My first point about the S was due to the original poster comparing the A6 as a boxy, comfy car and the A7 as a sporty, driver's car. It is the S models that are the drivers cars, althought your point is well taken re: RS models. However, I don't think we have an RS6 or RS7 in the States yet, and I'm not sure we will. The RS6 sold so well the first time around!
Re: the difference in the GS and GS F-Sport, it has the Sport + mode that the luxury doesn't have, which tightens the suspension even more and (in some cases) rear wheel steering. I think there are more differences than just the wheels. I could certainly be wrong because I don't know as much about the Luxury model.
My first point about the S was due to the original poster comparing the A6 as a boxy, comfy car and the A7 as a sporty, driver's car. It is the S models that are the drivers cars, althought your point is well taken re: RS models. However, I don't think we have an RS6 or RS7 in the States yet, and I'm not sure we will. The RS6 sold so well the first time around!
Re: the difference in the GS and GS F-Sport, it has the Sport + mode that the luxury doesn't have, which tightens the suspension even more and (in some cases) rear wheel steering. I think there are more differences than just the wheels. I could certainly be wrong because I don't know as much about the Luxury model.
The E/CLS combo, 5/6 Series combo, and A6/A7 combo are the styling variants.
Then multiplied by at least two suspension variations: luxo and sports.
That makes a total of 4 variations already.
Then come the hardcore suspension variations on top.
They have so many engine variations too, on top of the styling and suspension variations.
The Germans are working really hard.
Their cars are smoother and quieter than ever; quieter than the 4GS.
The latest Camry is incredibly unrefined; you can hear all the belts and pulley's in the latest Camry.
The only department the Germans have not yet mastered is durability and reliability.
Edit: One of the main departments the Germans have not yet mastered is durability and reliability.
Lexus is underestimating the German fightback...
Last edited by peteharvey; 08-12-12 at 01:17 PM.
08-11-12, 03:18 PM
#259
Guest
Posts: n/a
That's only a subjective fact - and debatable at that.
An objective fact - the new 4GS is underselling the old 3GS big time.
The old 3GS amassed 33,457 in its first year of release.
And once the next generation 5GS is released, all the knives will come out for the 4GS.
The early 2010's may be looked back to be NOT the greatest era for Lexus, with Camry recalls in the recent past, followed by obvious cost cutting...
Yes, the Germans have 4 variants, and more in fact.
The E/CLS combo, 5/6 Series combo, and A6/A7 combo are the styling variants.
Then multiplied by at least two suspension variations: luxo and sports.
That makes a total of 4 variations already.
Then come the hardcore suspension variations on top.
They have so many engine variations too, on top of the styling and suspension variations.
The Germans are working really hard.
Their cars are smoother and quieter than ever; quieter than the 4GS.
The latest Camry is incredibly unrefined; you can hear all the belts and pulley's in the latest Camry.
The only department the Germans have not yet mastered is durability and reliability.
Lexus is underestimating the German fightback...
An objective fact - the new 4GS is underselling the old 3GS big time.
The old 3GS amassed 33,457 in its first year of release.
And once the next generation 5GS is released, all the knives will come out for the 4GS.
The early 2010's may be looked back to be NOT the greatest era for Lexus, with Camry recalls in the recent past, followed by obvious cost cutting...
Yes, the Germans have 4 variants, and more in fact.
The E/CLS combo, 5/6 Series combo, and A6/A7 combo are the styling variants.
Then multiplied by at least two suspension variations: luxo and sports.
That makes a total of 4 variations already.
Then come the hardcore suspension variations on top.
They have so many engine variations too, on top of the styling and suspension variations.
The Germans are working really hard.
Their cars are smoother and quieter than ever; quieter than the 4GS.
The latest Camry is incredibly unrefined; you can hear all the belts and pulley's in the latest Camry.
The only department the Germans have not yet mastered is durability and reliability.
Lexus is underestimating the German fightback...
Look the GS is a fine car is is most in this class. We are now just nit-picking Lexus and the GS on a Lexus forum with tons of 4GS owners looking around asking "wtf".
08-11-12, 03:30 PM
#260
Its hilarious that the 3GS was called out for not selling well and now we are hearing it was a great seller
Look the GS is a fine car is is most in this class. We are now just nit-picking Lexus and the GS on a Lexus forum with tons of 4GS owners looking around asking "wtf".
Look the GS is a fine car is is most in this class. We are now just nit-picking Lexus and the GS on a Lexus forum with tons of 4GS owners looking around asking "wtf".
and to all the 4GS owners.
enjoy your car.
08-11-12, 04:23 PM
#261
Its hilarious that the 3GS was called out for not selling well and now we are hearing it was a great seller
Look the GS is a fine car is is most in this class. We are now just nit-picking Lexus and the GS on a Lexus forum with tons of 4GS owners looking around asking "wtf".
Look the GS is a fine car is is most in this class. We are now just nit-picking Lexus and the GS on a Lexus forum with tons of 4GS owners looking around asking "wtf".
The 3GS sold 33,457 in its first year 2005, and was criticized for not selling well.
Now, the all new 4GS is on way to selling x,xxx in its first year.
Anyone know the exact year to date sales?
I guess its not hilarious, but concerning to the profits of the manufacturers, the dealerships, and the sales reps.
What I suspect may have happened, is that the European fightback has intensified, meanwhile Toyota Motor Corp is tightening their belts after the recent Camry recalls.
I'm sure Toyota Motor Corp and Lexus will bounce back in by 2015.
But yes, the 4GS is a darn good car in its own right.
Just being too nit picky really regarding the sales.
If I had the current 4GS, I would keep it for years to come...
Last edited by peteharvey; 08-11-12 at 04:31 PM.
08-11-12, 07:19 PM
#262
nit picking gets to be annoying after a while and that is what happened. "I WOULD NOT TRADE MY 2013 GS350 F-Sport OBSIDIAN EXTERIOR/CABERNET INTERIOR with every option for anything else in it's class". this thread will go on forever about what???? the tires are not sticky enough,,, the roof slopes to much to the right,,, the gas tank door is not square enough,,, does anyone see where i'm going with this??? this is how you sound. and to all the 4GS owners. enjoy your car.
and to all the 4GS owners. enjoy your car.Ditto your 4GS; its a lovely piece of machinery too.
Nevermind the picky comment on this sales thread.
We just want point out ways for Lexus to sell even better than what they are achieving now.
There's always room for more profit to keep the manufacturers and dealers happy...
08-12-12, 08:18 AM
#263
I think the 2GS helped alot with the 3GS first year sales. Not too many here had one or remember how great the 2GS was. The 2GS was the reason that I got my 3GS in the first place. Yes, it turned out it was not the same car anymore, but I still love it. I just think the 4GS is what the 3GS should have been, unfortunately it took Lexus 6 years to realize that.
08-12-12, 09:04 AM
#264
Second, you state that the only department the Germans have not mastered is reliability and durability... Really? You're making an argument that these are only minor drawbacks that can be excused? Respectfully, I disagree. I think these are major considerations and certainly one of the primary factors for my buying decision.
08-12-12, 01:08 PM
#265
I think the 2GS helped alot with the 3GS first year sales. Not too many here had one or remember how great the 2GS was. The 2GS was the reason that I got my 3GS in the first place. Yes, it turned out it was not the same car anymore, but I still love it. I just think the 4GS is what the 3GS should have been, unfortunately it took Lexus 6 years to realize that.
1998 30,622,
1999 30,326.
2000 26,705.
However, later 2GS sales had plummeted to:
2003 13,306
2004 just 7,718.
Meanwhile, 3GS re-ignited to:
2005 33,457.
2006 27,390.
2007 23,381.
Toyota has had problems with Camry recalls in the recent past.
Thus, the 4GS is unfortunately a product of cost cutting.
The engines are almost unchanged, still falling a bit short on bottom end grunt.
The 6 speed gearbox is falling behind.
Yet the Germans have intensified their fightback.
Presently, 4GS sales are reaching low set targets, but noticeably behind its predecessor.
Presently, these are not the best times for Lexus.
Unless something big happens from now till the end of the year [unlikely], the new 4GS will undersell both 1st and 2nd year sales of both the 2GS and 3GS.
Enthusiasts love sporty cars; nothing wrong with that.
However, do remember that the bulk of the luxury market is after luxury-mobiles.
A manufacturer will try to cater for both, to keep both happy.
Without adequate sales volume, there will be insufficient profits to pour back into research and development for the next gen 5GS; then Lexus will be really in trouble.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Fiats financed Feraris, while VW's financed Lamborghinis, and Camries and Corollas financed the 4GS.
Sports models are great for enthusiasts, but they are not particularly profitable...
Last edited by peteharvey; 08-13-12 at 12:51 PM.
08-12-12, 01:16 PM
#266
First, I think you need to compare the previous years sales of the 3GS, not its first year of sales. Clearly sales for the GS have been on steep down slope for many years and this trend needs to be over come, which won't happen over night. Although Lexus is making good progress in that area IMO.
Second, you state that the only department the Germans have not mastered is reliability and durability... Really? You're making an argument that these are only minor drawbacks that can be excused? Respectfully, I disagree. I think these are major considerations and certainly one of the primary factors for my buying decision.
Second, you state that the only department the Germans have not mastered is reliability and durability... Really? You're making an argument that these are only minor drawbacks that can be excused? Respectfully, I disagree. I think these are major considerations and certainly one of the primary factors for my buying decision.
Okay, I'll reword it.
"One of the main departments that the Germans have not mastered is reliability and durability".
So picky, but I'm sure you understand what I meant.
The German competition have some weaknesses, and one of the major weaknesses is their reliability and durability...
Last edited by peteharvey; 08-12-12 at 01:19 PM.
08-12-12, 02:20 PM
#267
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
lots of good points here.
cliff notes:
- 4gs doing fine so far.
- who knows what future brings.
cliff notes:
- 4gs doing fine so far.
- who knows what future brings.
08-13-12, 01:50 AM
#268
Pole Position
Thread Starter
I think the 2GS helped alot with the 3GS first year sales. Not too many here had one or remember how great the 2GS was. The 2GS was the reason that I got my 3GS in the first place. Yes, it turned out it was not the same car anymore, but I still love it. I just think the 4GS is what the 3GS should have been, unfortunately it took Lexus 6 years to realize that.
The converse has happened with this current transition from 3GS to 4GS. The 3GS has left such a bitter after-taste in the mouths of potential GS buyers that they're now a bit gun-shy, after the sub-par ownership experience of the 3GS.
It will take month/years of good-word-of-mouth about the 4GS in order to undo the damage the 3GS has done to the GS "branding".
08-13-12, 11:03 AM
#269
Thanks, and just to clarify:
My first point about the S was due to the original poster comparing the A6 as a boxy, comfy car and the A7 as a sporty, driver's car. It is the S models that are the drivers cars, althought your point is well taken re: RS models. However, I don't think we have an RS6 or RS7 in the States yet, and I'm not sure we will. The RS6 sold so well the first time around!
Re: the difference in the GS and GS F-Sport, it has the Sport + mode that the luxury doesn't have, which tightens the suspension even more and (in some cases) rear wheel steering. I think there are more differences than just the wheels. I could certainly be wrong because I don't know as much about the Luxury model.
My first point about the S was due to the original poster comparing the A6 as a boxy, comfy car and the A7 as a sporty, driver's car. It is the S models that are the drivers cars, althought your point is well taken re: RS models. However, I don't think we have an RS6 or RS7 in the States yet, and I'm not sure we will. The RS6 sold so well the first time around!
Re: the difference in the GS and GS F-Sport, it has the Sport + mode that the luxury doesn't have, which tightens the suspension even more and (in some cases) rear wheel steering. I think there are more differences than just the wheels. I could certainly be wrong because I don't know as much about the Luxury model.
08-14-12, 08:06 AM
#270
Guest
Posts: n/a
Completely agree with this. Initial 3GS sales were spurred by the immense good-will that 2GS owners had for the GS model. These 2GS owners automatically opted for the 3GS not realising that it was an inferior product.
The converse has happened with this current transition from 3GS to 4GS. The 3GS has left such a bitter after-taste in the mouths of potential GS buyers that they're now a bit gun-shy, after the sub-par ownership experience of the 3GS.
It will take month/years of good-word-of-mouth about the 4GS in order to undo the damage the 3GS has done to the GS "branding".
The converse has happened with this current transition from 3GS to 4GS. The 3GS has left such a bitter after-taste in the mouths of potential GS buyers that they're now a bit gun-shy, after the sub-par ownership experience of the 3GS.
It will take month/years of good-word-of-mouth about the 4GS in order to undo the damage the 3GS has done to the GS "branding".
The 3GS forum is FILLED with happy owners since day one and people continue to purchase them used. It may not drive like the 4GS or have its features but there are tens of thousands of happy owners.