So much for predictions of the 4GS being a flop
10-09-12, 08:24 PM
#301
It's a pity the 4GS is beginning to lag behind; the 4GS deserves better than that.
However, Benz and Beamer have a great name and reputation, and the Audi A6 looks tremendously charismatic and stylish in the metal - Lexus must work harder on the 5GS styling next generation...
However, Benz and Beamer have a great name and reputation, and the Audi A6 looks tremendously charismatic and stylish in the metal - Lexus must work harder on the 5GS styling next generation...
10-09-12, 08:43 PM
#303
Sorry, but I don't agree about the Audi A6. I traded in an S5 Cab for something more practical, so the A6 would have been the natural candidate. I think it looks boring on the outside and the inside is too fussy. That said, apparently a lot of other car buyers disagree. I can't believe the A6 outsold the GS last month.
You disagree, yet you haven't come up with a better explanation yourself as to why the A6 outsold the 4GS.
There must be something that makes the A6 tick.
I hope it's doesn't become the norm as the 4GS ages...
10-09-12, 08:45 PM
#304
I'm just trying to think of some reasons why the A6 would manage to outsell the 4GS like that.
You disagree, yet you haven't come up with a better explanation yourself as to why the A6 outsold the 4GS.
There must be something that makes the A6 tick.
I hope it's doesn't become the norm as the 4GS ages...
You disagree, yet you haven't come up with a better explanation yourself as to why the A6 outsold the 4GS.
There must be something that makes the A6 tick.
I hope it's doesn't become the norm as the 4GS ages...
10-09-12, 08:49 PM
#305
Lexus Fanatic
Interestingly enough, running leases comparing the two cars, because of the good deals you can get on a GS and the new $1500 loyalty cash, or $2000 conquest cash on top of the discounts with the residual still strong a $60k Luxury package AWD GS is only about $85 a month more than a $43k luxury/premium package 2013 ES. If you can settle for a $55k premium GS the gap closes even more.
To me that makes the GS a pretty good value from a lease standpoint...not sure why its not clicking more. My guess is it really has to do with the new ES...
To me that makes the GS a pretty good value from a lease standpoint...not sure why its not clicking more. My guess is it really has to do with the new ES...
10-09-12, 08:56 PM
#306
That's a really good point. As some have mentioned before, buyers go into a Lexus dealer, test drive the ES, and never make it to the GS. Plus, Lexus is marketing the hell out of the ES right now.
10-09-12, 09:04 PM
#307
Lexus Fanatic
And I bet the sales staff are making more on the ES than they are on the GS right now because they can command way closer to sticker, especially the hybrid which is still selling at sticker. You can get like $1500 off of a gas ES right now, but you can do $4k off a GS, plus the rebates.
I think that's really it. With Mercedes, BMW, and Audi if the buyer wants a mid/full size car they have to buy the E, 5 or A6. The C, 5 & A4 are too small. But with Lexus they've got the ES which presents a huge value option to buyers who have no performance desires, so they go there.
I think that's really it. With Mercedes, BMW, and Audi if the buyer wants a mid/full size car they have to buy the E, 5 or A6. The C, 5 & A4 are too small. But with Lexus they've got the ES which presents a huge value option to buyers who have no performance desires, so they go there.
10-09-12, 09:07 PM
#308
Yes, it seems that the new ES is eating away the the 4GS, but considering the ES's price relative to the E Class, both the ES and GS could still sell a lot better - it's tough to break the long standing German reputation...
10-09-12, 09:08 PM
#309
Pole Position
Thread Starter
New Lexus owner here...4GS F-sport
I've owned BMW, Audi, Merc., Saab, and everything else in the past (and currently own a Porsche 911).
My impression is that the current 4GS in the U.S. may turn out to be a niche car that falls between the cracks.... a little too sporty a ride for those who want ultimate cush/luxury car, while the F-Sport versions will lose out to Merc and BMW purely for prestige factor/German nameplate....
However, I think that the current GS350 F-Sport is special, one of the great cars of our time. Everyone who's tested this car knows it, including Magazine reviewers who've claimed that the A6 or the 535i comes out slightly ahead, but "admit" that the GS350 F-sport is the one they get excited about the most and want to drive at the end of the day.
One might complain about the weaker low-end torque of our 306hp V6 engine vs the BMW turbo engines, for example, but this is one AMAZING engine.... almost unbelievable when you put in manual paddle-shift mode and let it open up at the higher rpm's.
The F-Sport is a DRIVER'S car-- like the E46 3-series, E39 and E60 5-series, 4th Gen. Subaru Legacy GT, Saab 9000 Aero, etc. --even though it may never have mass appeal.
I've owned BMW, Audi, Merc., Saab, and everything else in the past (and currently own a Porsche 911).
My impression is that the current 4GS in the U.S. may turn out to be a niche car that falls between the cracks.... a little too sporty a ride for those who want ultimate cush/luxury car, while the F-Sport versions will lose out to Merc and BMW purely for prestige factor/German nameplate....
However, I think that the current GS350 F-Sport is special, one of the great cars of our time. Everyone who's tested this car knows it, including Magazine reviewers who've claimed that the A6 or the 535i comes out slightly ahead, but "admit" that the GS350 F-sport is the one they get excited about the most and want to drive at the end of the day.
One might complain about the weaker low-end torque of our 306hp V6 engine vs the BMW turbo engines, for example, but this is one AMAZING engine.... almost unbelievable when you put in manual paddle-shift mode and let it open up at the higher rpm's.
The F-Sport is a DRIVER'S car-- like the E46 3-series, E39 and E60 5-series, 4th Gen. Subaru Legacy GT, Saab 9000 Aero, etc. --even though it may never have mass appeal.
That said, Rome wasn't built in a day. The 4GS has had to battle long-held and deeply ingrained (and partly wrong) perceptions that Lexus sedans are boring and not as dynamic as German sedans.
The key is consistency. As long as Lexus keeps updating the 4GS and churning out GS cars that maintain the excitement and fun-to-drive factor, sooner or later, perception will catch up to reality and the 4GS may well end up vastly improving its already credible sales numbers.
Last edited by natnut; 10-09-12 at 09:20 PM.
10-09-12, 09:19 PM
#310
Lexus Fanatic
I think they're selling plenty of ES's. 6,500 units in September is huge, dealers here have no inventory, cars come in and go, dealers maybe have 1 or 2 on the lot at a time. No salespeople have any drive to negotiate with me on the ES at all. When I say GS though the offers start coming.
10-09-12, 09:22 PM
#311
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'm just trying to think of some reasons why the A6 would manage to outsell the 4GS like that.
You disagree, yet you haven't come up with a better explanation yourself as to why the A6 outsold the 4GS.
There must be something that makes the A6 tick.
I hope it's doesn't become the norm as the 4GS ages...
You disagree, yet you haven't come up with a better explanation yourself as to why the A6 outsold the 4GS.
There must be something that makes the A6 tick.
I hope it's doesn't become the norm as the 4GS ages...
You can buy a FWD 4 cylinder A6 here. Imagine. Fwd I-4 GS, trolls would bash the GS to death. The a6 should sell Better than it does considering the base model offered.
That said the GS needs to be around 2k.
Maybe it's an inventory issue?
10-09-12, 09:27 PM
#312
Lexus Fanatic
Here at least dealers have tons of GS's. I was looking at a dealers inventory tonight and they have like 35. ES inventory is another story, if a dealer has 2 or 3 at a time that's strong.
10-09-12, 09:33 PM
#313
Except the GS has always outsold the A6 every year since I can remember. People are harping about one month? Really.
You can buy a FWD 4 cylinder A6 here. Imagine. Fwd I-4 GS, trolls would bash the GS to death. The a6 should sell Better than it does considering the base model offered.
That said the GS needs to be around 2k.
Maybe it's an inventory issue?
You can buy a FWD 4 cylinder A6 here. Imagine. Fwd I-4 GS, trolls would bash the GS to death. The a6 should sell Better than it does considering the base model offered.
That said the GS needs to be around 2k.
Maybe it's an inventory issue?
In some ways, Audi has seen rapid growth lately because Volvo and Saab have declined so much.
At its peak, Volvo was selling about 450,000 units worldwide, while Saab was doing about 200,000 units worldwide.
Now both Volvo and Saab only sell at a fraction of their past, and it is possible that Audi may have taken up that slack...
Last edited by peteharvey; 10-09-12 at 09:40 PM.
10-09-12, 09:39 PM
#314
Lexus Fanatic
I think for the first time they really have some compelling products...
10-09-12, 11:51 PM
#315
Treating and nurturing your trademark is everything. When Lexus recalls its first line, they send clear signals of willingness to admit the machine as not perfect but never the less they stand beside it. Its not a sign of suspicious quality, rather a statement of there is no perfect machine. Audi in Europe/Sweden has only 2 years warranty and are not known to be as advocate for good will. I visit both Audi and BMW and see how their line are perceived.