Ice350

iTrader: (1)

The 4GS is starting to look better to me.....but not there yet, of course.
But I'm not surprised the new ES would eat into GS sales. I think this is the best ES yet.
When I saw the ES and GS sitting side by side in the showroom, I could see how similar they look.....but the ES design flows better. The ES is roomier than its ever been. It feels more luxurious than past models. Most Lexus shoppers could care less about the GS superior driving dynamics. They see 2 cars that look similar, feel similar but one is cheaper.

I've been to the dealer about 4 times since the new ES came out. I see people around it everytime. Hardly anyone checks out the 4GS. The buying public are not enthusiasts and they don't look at a car they way we do. Manufacturers can't survive off of enthusiasts. They have to give the public something good but at a low price. The GS model is not a volume car and this long discussion over its sales seems counter productive imo.

But have fun!

SW17LS

See, the more times I look at the new ES the less enthused I am about it.

dseag2

If there's any consolation, the new ES will be at every stoplight, just like the past generations of ES's. The GS will be more rare. Not great for resale, but good for exclusivity.

Mr. Burns

Last month the 4GS outsold both the 5 series and A6. You cannot make a trend out of a single month's performance. I saw my first A6 the other day, in white. Very dull looking car with flat bodywork and lacking in details.

I suspect the long term resale of the 4GS will be exceptional. People are leasing lots of 5ers and E-classes now, but few of these people will actually own those cars for a long time. It's just like the 1IS, which currently seems to have held its value a lot better than the BMWs, Audis and Mercs of its day.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

Haha I don't think the 4gs resale will be any different from the previous generation of gs, so I don't see what's going to be exceptional about it. Likely higher than e and 5, but then it's expected

Being not as common can be good or bad it really depends

Mr. Burns

It's a better car than the 3GS relative to its competition.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i didn't deny that, but i don't see how that will make the resale exceptional. same could somewhat be said on the 2gs against the e and 5, how's the resale? it's just another luxury mass production car, that's why i expect the resale to simply track how the market / model has been previously

peteharvey

Not just the A6's single month performance outselling the new 4GS, but overall Audi in recent years has been growing at a very rapid rate in sales; much more rapid than Lexus.

With advances in technology, the new 4GS has increased torsional rigidity and bending stiffness, so it can have stiffer springs for sharper steering; something that the old 3GS couldn't have, unless it wanted to put up with more creaks and rattles.
However, the 4GS styling has not been as highly acclaimed as the old 3GS's L-Finesse styling.
I doubt the 4GS resale will be any better, or much better, but time will tell.
So far, data hints that the 4GS is probably selling in lower volumes than the old 3GS at their same stage in life; again, time will tell.

It's all hard to compare exactly, because back in 2005, the Infiniti M's were less competitive against the 3GS, but now the Infiniti M's are more competitive against the 4GS, so one would say that Lexus must really pull up its pants to keep up with the competition; life gets harder and harder, and cars get naturally better and better...

Mr. Burns

When car A is very close to if not better than its competitors and has a reliability and cost of ownership advantage, it will be much more desirable 10 years down the line on the used market than those same competitors and will thus command a higher price.

SW17LS

Then why doesn't it outsell that same competition now? It's significantly cheaper, and still doesn't.

That's he flaw in your logic.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

2 points

1) where did i say the lexus will not have higher resale? read my post again carefully
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/7535180-post320.html
"Likely higher than e and 5".

2) but that doesn't make it exceptional. i don't see 1gs and 2gs prices anything exceptional compared to similar year 5 and e. again, likely higher, but nothing significant

Mr. Burns

Because the 1GS and 2GS were not as good as the 4GS relative to their competition at the time.

LexFather

Romil and myself had a 2GS. There wouldn't be a Clublexus without the 2GS. The great founder MKilty had a 2GS as well. There probably are tons of posters in this thread that had a 2GS.

The 2GS was the fastest automatic sedan when it debuted, debuted multiple world firsts like Optiron gauges, won Import Car of the Year and was a 10 best winner 4 times. It was the first Asian sedan to meet and beat the Germans in the mid-size class. The 2GS and E39 went toe to toe in most comparisons and reviews and on the internet.

The 1GS was another thing, beautiful styling, lackluster engines and driving. The 2GS is simply one of the all time great cars.

While the 4GS is getting rave reviews, the 2GS simply got better reviews and a much better response from the public. The 2GS was in movies, rap videos, in popular culture. I've yet to see the 4GS mentioned or seen anywhere.

Some of us have been down that road. Some of us are damn near historians at this point. I strongly suggest reading on the 2GS b/c that was a ground breaking Lexus and car for all of Japan/Asia. I love the 4GS but at this point the 2GS had a far greater impact and also sold better.

Outrage

The demographics of a second-hand buyer are different. A good example of this are the Japanese sports cars of the 1990's. They sold poorly when new but command higher prices than competitors in the second-hand market.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

if you are so tied up with the 4gs thinking it's the greatest spaceship ever made, then i have nothing else to say. it seems to me that you think the w212 and f10 are complete garbage and the 4gs is god from heaven already.

but with that and to downplay the 1gs and 2gs against competitors, i think that shows how much you didn't pay enough attention. thank you mike for posting details on the 2gs, i don't need to add anything else.