So much for predictions of the 4GS being a flop
10-12-12, 11:56 AM
#331
Believe it or not, my wife showed me an episode of either Project Runway or some show like that where they did a special on the 4GS's and how the colors were supposed to inspire them to create new designs. Each of the contestants got to drive a different color 4GS. This was sponsored by Lexus. Since then not too much more about the 4GS, especially since the debut of the 2013 ES.
10-12-12, 12:02 PM
#332
Romil and myself had a 2GS. There wouldn't be a Clublexus without the 2GS. The great founder MKilty had a 2GS as well. There probably are tons of posters in this thread that had a 2GS.
The 2GS was the fastest automatic sedan when it debuted, debuted multiple world firsts like Optiron gauges, won Import Car of the Year and was a 10 best winner 4 times. It was the first Asian sedan to meet and beat the Germans in the mid-size class. The 2GS and E39 went toe to toe in most comparisons and reviews and on the internet.
The 1GS was another thing, beautiful styling, lackluster engines and driving. The 2GS is simply one of the all time great cars.
While the 4GS is getting rave reviews, the 2GS simply got better reviews and a much better response from the public. The 2GS was in movies, rap videos, in popular culture. I've yet to see the 4GS mentioned or seen anywhere.
Some of us have been down that road. Some of us are damn near historians at this point. I strongly suggest reading on the 2GS b/c that was a ground breaking Lexus and car for all of Japan/Asia. I love the 4GS but at this point the 2GS had a far greater impact and also sold better.
The 2GS was the fastest automatic sedan when it debuted, debuted multiple world firsts like Optiron gauges, won Import Car of the Year and was a 10 best winner 4 times. It was the first Asian sedan to meet and beat the Germans in the mid-size class. The 2GS and E39 went toe to toe in most comparisons and reviews and on the internet.
The 1GS was another thing, beautiful styling, lackluster engines and driving. The 2GS is simply one of the all time great cars.
While the 4GS is getting rave reviews, the 2GS simply got better reviews and a much better response from the public. The 2GS was in movies, rap videos, in popular culture. I've yet to see the 4GS mentioned or seen anywhere.
Some of us have been down that road. Some of us are damn near historians at this point. I strongly suggest reading on the 2GS b/c that was a ground breaking Lexus and car for all of Japan/Asia. I love the 4GS but at this point the 2GS had a far greater impact and also sold better.
10-12-12, 12:56 PM
#333
Last month [September USA], the new 4GS sold just 1,454 units relative to 5,089 E Classes.
So, as a car, I'm not sure how good/bad the old 3GS was relative to its competition at the time, but the 3GS seems to be the best selling GS ever, on debut.
In its second year, the 3GS still managed to amass 27,390 units relative to a super steady 50,195 units from the E Class in 2006.
I'm not sure how well the 4GS will sell in its second year in 2013, but we must be careful not to over-rate the 4GS and down play the role of previous generations of GS's; it is generally natural & mandatory for successive models to improve on its predecessors....
10-12-12, 01:17 PM
#334
Guest
Posts: n/a
Believe it or not, my wife showed me an episode of either Project Runway or some show like that where they did a special on the 4GS's and how the colors were supposed to inspire them to create new designs. Each of the contestants got to drive a different color 4GS. This was sponsored by Lexus. Since then not too much more about the 4GS, especially since the debut of the 2013 ES.
Hey Pete one thing, E-class includes coupes and wagons right? So numbers are not sedan to sedan.
10-12-12, 01:23 PM
#335
Sure, the E Class also includes a greater variation in engine capacities, 4 cylinders and diesels, and a greater variation in suspension configurations.
10-12-12, 01:43 PM
#336
Interestingly, the lack of different body options like coupes and sedans, and the lack of engine and suspension choices certainly does play a roll in the shortfall in GS sales compared to E Class sales.
However, in 2005, Lexus amassed 67,577 units of the ES in the USA.
And 67,577 is not the ES's best sales ever - the ES has sold 71,450 in 2002, 75,916 in 2004, and 82,867 in 2007; I personally thought the 2007-12 ES was the best looking ES ever, esp on the exterior.
So the shortfall in GS relative to the E Class, may have even more to do with the effect of the ES.
Afterall, the ES is indeed a body, engine and suspension variation - indeed a total variation of the GS, in a fairly similar, though not exactly identical price bracket.
The ES and GS actually share the identical engine block etc, with the GS having the addition of direct injection nozzles.
However, unlike coupe and wagon variations, the ES variation is so major, that it is categorized under a different model name, and this works against the GS sales figures...
However, in 2005, Lexus amassed 67,577 units of the ES in the USA.
And 67,577 is not the ES's best sales ever - the ES has sold 71,450 in 2002, 75,916 in 2004, and 82,867 in 2007; I personally thought the 2007-12 ES was the best looking ES ever, esp on the exterior.
So the shortfall in GS relative to the E Class, may have even more to do with the effect of the ES.
Afterall, the ES is indeed a body, engine and suspension variation - indeed a total variation of the GS, in a fairly similar, though not exactly identical price bracket.
The ES and GS actually share the identical engine block etc, with the GS having the addition of direct injection nozzles.
However, unlike coupe and wagon variations, the ES variation is so major, that it is categorized under a different model name, and this works against the GS sales figures...
Last edited by peteharvey; 10-12-12 at 02:04 PM.
10-12-12, 08:01 PM
#338
It's very competitive out there and BMW is dropping their pants. The following article is from Bloomberg:
BMW Lets U.S. Lessees Skip Payments in Push to Pass Mercedes
(Bloomberg) -- Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, falling behind Daimler AG’s Mercedes-Benz in U.S. luxury auto sales, is introducing an incentive program through the end of this month that lets lease owners skip payments if they buy a new vehicle.
BMW is mailing offers to current lease owners of most of the vehicles in its 2010 model-year lineup that allows the customers to waive as many as three payments to buy a new or certified-used model, according to an Oct. 10 notice sent to dealers. The program, through BMW Financial Services, runs through Oct. 31.
After a 7 percent sales gain in September, Mercedes extended its lead over BMW to 5,221 deliveries through the year’s first nine months in the race to be the No. 1 U.S. luxury auto brand. BMW last year outsold Mercedes and Toyota Motor Corp.’s Lexus, which at that time was hurt by vehicle shortages following natural disasters in Asia.
BMW Lets U.S. Lessees Skip Payments in Push to Pass Mercedes
(Bloomberg) -- Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, falling behind Daimler AG’s Mercedes-Benz in U.S. luxury auto sales, is introducing an incentive program through the end of this month that lets lease owners skip payments if they buy a new vehicle.
BMW is mailing offers to current lease owners of most of the vehicles in its 2010 model-year lineup that allows the customers to waive as many as three payments to buy a new or certified-used model, according to an Oct. 10 notice sent to dealers. The program, through BMW Financial Services, runs through Oct. 31.
After a 7 percent sales gain in September, Mercedes extended its lead over BMW to 5,221 deliveries through the year’s first nine months in the race to be the No. 1 U.S. luxury auto brand. BMW last year outsold Mercedes and Toyota Motor Corp.’s Lexus, which at that time was hurt by vehicle shortages following natural disasters in Asia.
10-12-12, 08:56 PM
#339
Pole Position
Thread Starter
I'm a diehard 2GS owner and it was the 2GS which got me into Lexus and into CL. I'll always have a soft spot for the 2GS.
That said, I did have to mod the 2GS in order for the handling to be on par with its BMW contemporary and benchmark, the E39 5 series. Where the 2GS had the advantage was its useability, smoothness of drivetrain/engine, its looks and its interior space.
In contrast, the 4GS is beating all German competitors in terms of dynamics, STOCK from the factory.
The 2GS single-handedly made Lexus sexy again with its styling and remarkable-for-its-time V8. The 4GS may not have the engine (YET) to compete with the German V8s but it has the chassis to beat them and is the first mainstream Lexus to be a better and more enjoyable driver's car without modification than its equivalent German competitor. That alone is a significant achievement.
With time, the 4GS may well occupy the same hallowed ground as the 2GS in the sense that its introduction signalled a sea-change for Lexus just like the 2GS did.
That said, I did have to mod the 2GS in order for the handling to be on par with its BMW contemporary and benchmark, the E39 5 series. Where the 2GS had the advantage was its useability, smoothness of drivetrain/engine, its looks and its interior space.
In contrast, the 4GS is beating all German competitors in terms of dynamics, STOCK from the factory.
The 2GS single-handedly made Lexus sexy again with its styling and remarkable-for-its-time V8. The 4GS may not have the engine (YET) to compete with the German V8s but it has the chassis to beat them and is the first mainstream Lexus to be a better and more enjoyable driver's car without modification than its equivalent German competitor. That alone is a significant achievement.
With time, the 4GS may well occupy the same hallowed ground as the 2GS in the sense that its introduction signalled a sea-change for Lexus just like the 2GS did.
10-13-12, 12:26 PM
#340
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Just out of interest, I'm not sure how well people rate the 3GS [not mentioned above] relative to its competition at the time, but the 3GS amassed 33,457 units in its debut year in 2005, at a time when the E Class sold the usual consistent 50,383 units in the US.
Last month [September USA], the new 4GS sold just 1,454 units relative to 5,089 E Classes.
So, as a car, I'm not sure how good/bad the old 3GS was relative to its competition at the time, but the 3GS seems to be the best selling GS ever, on debut.
In its second year, the 3GS still managed to amass 27,390 units relative to a super steady 50,195 units from the E Class in 2006.
Last month [September USA], the new 4GS sold just 1,454 units relative to 5,089 E Classes.
So, as a car, I'm not sure how good/bad the old 3GS was relative to its competition at the time, but the 3GS seems to be the best selling GS ever, on debut.
In its second year, the 3GS still managed to amass 27,390 units relative to a super steady 50,195 units from the E Class in 2006.
also, when the 2GS was launched for example, the ES was a pretty 'homely' vehicle, whereas the new ES is a real looker. the 4GS has generally viewed as 'different'/aggressive with good/bad parts to its overall look.
10-13-12, 12:32 PM
#341
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
so getting back to the thread title...
i don't think the 4GS has been a flop, nor has it been a runaway hot seller, and that's probably just fine with Lexus. it's given them more credibility with the 'sports sedan' fans and if the new ES has taken some sales, i'm sure that doesn't concern lexus in the slightest!
they have a good 1-2 punch there, with the heavily refreshed LS and coming new IS to give even more great ammunition.
the lexus sedan line-up is in good shape.
we can all find nits with the 4GS, esp. in the u.s. with missing options and packages (like no hybrid f-sport, no power trunk, no 4ws, only 6 speed auto), but it's still a pretty big step up from the 3GS and vastly better than the 2GS I6 although the lack of a v8 is still a shame.
i don't think the 4GS has been a flop, nor has it been a runaway hot seller, and that's probably just fine with Lexus. it's given them more credibility with the 'sports sedan' fans and if the new ES has taken some sales, i'm sure that doesn't concern lexus in the slightest!
they have a good 1-2 punch there, with the heavily refreshed LS and coming new IS to give even more great ammunition.
the lexus sedan line-up is in good shape.
we can all find nits with the 4GS, esp. in the u.s. with missing options and packages (like no hybrid f-sport, no power trunk, no 4ws, only 6 speed auto), but it's still a pretty big step up from the 3GS and vastly better than the 2GS I6 although the lack of a v8 is still a shame.
10-13-12, 01:48 PM
#342
11-13-12, 08:34 AM
#343
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Seems like quality will always be appreciated long after the hype has worn off 
The time and effort that Lexus put into engineering the 4GS will put it in good stead in terms of long-term sales and also how it will be remembered amongst the pantheon of great Lexus vehicles, past and future.
Also the critics and cynics are of course quiet on this matter, but GS sales were UP compared to September, while ES sales dropped from September. This is impressive, considering Sandy affected end of month sales.
So contrary to what the loud minority here have been criticizing and saying about the GS, GS sales are NOT collapsing, and are holding strong even with the new ES out. The word really is spreading about how good the 4GS is. More model variants if they come soon will only further help GS sales.
The time and effort that Lexus put into engineering the 4GS will put it in good stead in terms of long-term sales and also how it will be remembered amongst the pantheon of great Lexus vehicles, past and future.Also the critics and cynics are of course quiet on this matter, but GS sales were UP compared to September, while ES sales dropped from September. This is impressive, considering Sandy affected end of month sales.
So contrary to what the loud minority here have been criticizing and saying about the GS, GS sales are NOT collapsing, and are holding strong even with the new ES out. The word really is spreading about how good the 4GS is. More model variants if they come soon will only further help GS sales.
Last edited by natnut; 11-13-12 at 08:46 AM.
11-13-12, 08:37 AM
#344
Guest
Posts: n/a
It would be great to see the GS around 2k a month for Nov/Dec. They are usually very strong Lexus months due to promotions and heavy advertising.
Again a huge huge concern to me are the Lexus salespeople lack of passion for the GS. I've been to a few dealerships since it has debuted and again they rather point someone to a ****ing ES or RX base than anything sporty.
Even my own sales person tried to push us into a regular RX instead of the F-sport we were looking at. I literally had to tell him "hey look, I don't give a **** about the base RX"
Its sad how trained they are into easy sales. They are hurting the GS, instead of explaining how this is an amazing driving car and its worth the extra $$$$ over an ES, they rather explain how the ES is just as big/bigger but cheaper.
SMH
Again a huge huge concern to me are the Lexus salespeople lack of passion for the GS. I've been to a few dealerships since it has debuted and again they rather point someone to a ****ing ES or RX base than anything sporty.
Even my own sales person tried to push us into a regular RX instead of the F-sport we were looking at. I literally had to tell him "hey look, I don't give a **** about the base RX"
Its sad how trained they are into easy sales. They are hurting the GS, instead of explaining how this is an amazing driving car and its worth the extra $$$$ over an ES, they rather explain how the ES is just as big/bigger but cheaper.
SMH
11-13-12, 10:07 AM
#345
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
salespeople take the path of least resistance. can't really blame them, they've got to put food on the table, and i'd bet 90% of people who walk into a lexus dealership are looking for comfy, quiet, reliable, not sporty. the gs has controversial front styling combined with a rather bland side profile, making it rather unusual.
the other day a 4gs went by me, followed not long after by a new es. passengers thought the 4gs looked dull (they didn't see the front) and the es elicited a 'wow'. just one data point, but it doesn't surprise me.
but regardless, the 4gs has the sporty credentials, test results / great reviews, and features, that those in the know will consider it. it will be a niche vehicle, but that's ok because lexus has the es to get larger volume mainstream sales.
this thread itself should probably be closed, since the 4gs is certainly not a flop!
the other day a 4gs went by me, followed not long after by a new es. passengers thought the 4gs looked dull (they didn't see the front) and the es elicited a 'wow'. just one data point, but it doesn't surprise me.
but regardless, the 4gs has the sporty credentials, test results / great reviews, and features, that those in the know will consider it. it will be a niche vehicle, but that's ok because lexus has the es to get larger volume mainstream sales.
this thread itself should probably be closed, since the 4gs is certainly not a flop!