BLAQ ICE

THX All on the Lexus GS forums. Your knowledge is great. I am moving on to Tesla to enter the electric age of vehicles....

I am still a Lexus owner SC430....So I'll still get the expert knowledge CLUBLEXUS always has to offer.

ARISTOh

iTrader: (3)

Great story

Vladi

If you live in a house make sure to get the panels, at least 2K.

bobp

Same situation - used to own a GS - have an LS now - and have put down $ for a Tesla Model S.

Since my Tesla reservation won't get to the top until next year - I've still got time to stay with Lexus and get a new GS (hybrid?) or the new LS.

While the Tesla's onboard electronics are a huge improvement (no $250 annual map updates at the dealer - always connected to the Internet) - overall the Tesla is a step down on many of the luxury features in the GS and LS - and may not (yet) appeal to many Lexus owners.

Plus while the 300 mile range is the longest for an EV - it still isn't enough for the 360 mile round trips that I make periodically - and I still have to figure out how/where I'll get a quick charge so I can make that trip in one day...

raytseng

Rent a car when you need to go on those long trips?

Also, just for you new tesla owners, be sure you take a good look into maintenance /maintenance costs.
Since it is a niche market, you pretty much have to go to Tesla for maintenance.

Still, not sure what the purpose of this thread being in the 4gs forum; perhaps you would get a better discussion in the carchat forum

nantang

I'm following Tesla with great interest. As far as I'm concerned, the Model S is the only serious competition to the GS450h. I looked at the Infiniti M35h at a car show, but the better feel of the Lexus GS hybrid was noticeable. Given my two hour commutes, Tesla makes the only electric cars that fit my current work conditions and lifestyle. They're just above my price range, or at the top of it. But, the main reason I'm not going to them now is that there is no local Tesla dealership; I'd have to travel from Texas to Arizona or Colorado to get the car, and the added complexity of maintenance would be difficult. My income is getting better, and the cost Tesla cars are coming down, so I suspect one of my garage spaces will be occupied by a Tesla sooner or later. However, I don't see migrating away from Lexus any time soon.

I'm hoping to see a Tesla/Lexus partnership venture soon, since Tesla is already working with Toyota on an all-electric RAV4. Maybe in a few years, we'll see an all-electric CT or RX, or better yet, an electric coupe, now that the Tesla Roadster is no longer available.

Axxlrod

I believed Tesla missed some important sales targets/goals recently, and this disqualified them for additional govt loan money. Elon Musk might have deep pockets, but they aren't "that" deep.

As for regular maintenance on Teslas, there really isn't any. No oil to change, no fuel filters or anything having to do with an engine. Just tires and brake pads. Now if something weird breaks, and a trip to the dealer is required, then you're out of luck if there isn't one near you.

I'd be a little leary of buying a car from a manufacturer that might not be around in a few years.

dseag2

Fisker and Tesla produce beautiful cars. Fisker is on the rocks, ready to run out of money, so maybe that will help Tesla boost sales.

bobp

It was Fisker that was cut off from the federal funds - Tesla seems to be doing OK. They've been selling their Roadster for several years - so the Model S won't be their first vehicle. They've already contacted the first round of customers to confirm their orders - with first deliveries likely to be in the late June/July timeframe. And they have enough pre-orders to keep their factory busy for the next year. And, by the time my order gets to the top of the queue, some owners would have had at least 6 months of experience driving their Model S's - and have feedback on how well Tesla has delivered on their promises.

If you're in Texas, there's a showroom at the Houston Galleria - but this is only a showroom - they don't sell the cars there or service them. All sales are done online directly to Tesla in California. Delivery will be directly to homes - they will deliver the car and ensure the new owner has everything set up to use and charge the car.

Service is a concern. On one hand, based on experience from Roadster owners, it doesn't appear the Tesla cars will need as much maintenance. It doesn't require the periodic maintenance like gasoline cars - because the parts don't need frequent service. The electric motors are rated for 500,000 miles - there's no radiator - oil changes - ... So it's possible there won't be the need for 3 month or 6 month visits for service.

But when things do go wrong - they are supposed to be setting up a network of local service companies who will be able to do service on the new Model S cars - but haven't announced them yet.

As for the comment on renting a car for long distance trips - that is an option - though it starts eating into the cost savings from lower fuel (and possibly maintenance) costs.

On the other hand, my GS and LS were great cars - and the new GS and next gen LS will have many features that won't be present on the Tesla. While never having to stop at a gas station and the more powerful onboard electronics are both very attractive with the Model S - Lexus has been building great cars for a long time - and leaving Lexus won't be an easy decision.

I'm going to test drive the GS Hybrid once the dealer has one in stock - wait for the next gen LS to be released and take a close look at that - and then decide if I'll go one more round with a gas-powered Lexus - or jump ship to an EV.

LexusGSFGO

Just make sure the new model doesn't have the same flaw as their current model. See http://theunderstatement.com/post/18...stating-design

bobp

Tesla's claiming the Model S won't have the bricking problem - and that the car can sit for extended periods without risking damage to the battery.

Though battery management is clearly something to be concerned about. How often the battery is charged - and how much per charge - could affect battery life and capacity - issues that a gas-powered vehicle doesn't have...

Axxlrod

It's def an interesting car.

I just checked out the tesla website, and for the large battery, glass roof, tech package, stereo system and quick-chargers, the price was $92K. Including govt rebate, if you qualify. Plus the rebate is actually a credit on your annual tax return. So you have to pay the full amount when you purchase the car... $100K plus tax and fees.

So roughly $110K out the door. Yikes.

bobp

The Model S is really priced more in the range of a fully loaded LS than a GS. But it doesn't come with all of the luxury features in either the GS or the LS.

I have run some financial models on cost of ownership for the Model S and both a fully loaded LS and GS. Taking into account fuels savings (about $2K per year) and some savings from not having to do the periodic engine maintenance - even at the higher cost, over a 6 year period, including anticipated depreciation, the Model S comes in about the same long term cost as a GS - and less expensive than an LS.

But the up front cost of a long-range Model S is definitely going to be more out-of-pocket...

However, there's certainly more uncertainty in predicting the costs for the Tesla - since it's a brand new model, while there is a lot of experience with previous generation GS and LS cars...

spwolf

i think you cant save enough money in 5 years to pay for the replacement of the battery... EVs are statements right now, not sound financial choice.

If you think Tesla battery will last like Prius battery, think again... I think they have them pegged at 5 year life expectancy. Meaning that after 5 years, your car will be worthless because cost of those batteries is $30k.

bobp

The Model S comes with an 8 year 100,000 mile warranty for the 40kWh batteries and I thought I saw somewhere that the longer range 85kWh batteries have a longer mileage warranty.

But the warranty covers failure - and not range - and there is an expectation that even though they are using lithium ion batteries, the range will degrade over time.

Range is a concern. The quoted mileage is at 55 mph. Driving at full highway speeds reduces the range - as does using the car's accessories (A/C, entertainment system, ...). And to avoid damaging the batteries - the recommendation is to avoid allowing the batteries to be completely depleted. And this is in addition to a small amount of degradation - that mounts up year-to-year.

So a battery quoted as 300 miles may be more like 220 to 240, depending upon the age of the battery, speed, and accessories usage. And it will only get shorter over time.

And, as battery technology continues to improve, the range of new vehicles will slowly increase (unless there is a breakthrough in the technology) and the costs may decrease - affecting the relative value of EVs.

Even though the design is much, much simpler than a gas vehicle, the cost of the batteries is significant. During the LS recall last year, I was quoted by the dealer that if I didn't have the valve springs replaced, I risked having to pay for the engine to be replaced in the future if it was damaged by the original valve springs - and that would likely cost over $25K. Which is still less expensive than the $30-40K that the batteries probably cost in a Model S.

As is true with most new technology (like a few years ago when LCD TVs were so much more expensive...) that early adopters always pay much more to get the new technology. And the increased cost of the EV technology (primarily the batteries) or the less expensive hybrids - is still too great to overcome by cost savings from lower fuel costs.

I've updated my financial models to look at projected lifetime costs for owning a Model S, GS or LS - including depreciation, fuel and maintenance. Over a 6 year period (assuming the batter is NOT replaced), a fully loaded Model S appears to be comparable to a fully loaded GS and less expensive than an LS. Over a 3 year period, the increased cost of the Model S does make it more expensive than owning a GS - though it appears comparable to keeping an LS for 3 years. However, a fully loaded Model S does not have all of the features of a fully loaded GS or LS - so it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison.

It is very disappointing that most of today's cars (including the Lexus models) have not improved much in mileage in the six years since I bought my LS.

Really hate to spend almost $100 to fill up the tank...