CNET Reviews New GS...Not a Fan Of Joystick
05-14-12, 10:37 AM
#31
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don't know how many you've used, but unless it's improved dramatically, it's not very good. last gen gs for example was certainly not good, compared to even, dare i say it, acura. and the reviewer says it's way worse than a phone.
the review is very subjective of course and it seems overall the guy doesn't like the 4gs a whole lot. i agree with him on overall frumpy looks, no 3d nav view (really? in 2012?), and pricing/option limitations. but for the money it's a good deal compared to a 5 series it seems and the handling and space is a big improvement over 3gs.
the review is very subjective of course and it seems overall the guy doesn't like the 4gs a whole lot. i agree with him on overall frumpy looks, no 3d nav view (really? in 2012?), and pricing/option limitations. but for the money it's a good deal compared to a 5 series it seems and the handling and space is a big improvement over 3gs.
05-14-12, 11:01 AM
#32
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The difference seems to depend very much on e person. My wife likes the touch screen on her RX400h and hates the Remote Touch controller enough for it to be a deal-breaker on the idea of upgrading any time soon. I, however, fourd it to be handy when driving a newer loaner RX350.
On the GS, it makes sense, since this is a car intended more for driving performance and tech enthusiasts. For cars intended more for luxury, comfort, and ease of use, Lexus' bread-and-butter, a controller that requires training and practice is a step backwards. Touch screens are only going to appear more and more everywhere else. I would think they should be the norm on the ES, LS, and RX. The GS and IS, I'm favorable to the more complicated controller for now.
In the long run, I expect to see more of a Star Trek: the Next Generation style approach in luxury car designs in general, in which customizable touch screens are everywhere and hard buttons are considered old-fashioned.
On the GS, it makes sense, since this is a car intended more for driving performance and tech enthusiasts. For cars intended more for luxury, comfort, and ease of use, Lexus' bread-and-butter, a controller that requires training and practice is a step backwards. Touch screens are only going to appear more and more everywhere else. I would think they should be the norm on the ES, LS, and RX. The GS and IS, I'm favorable to the more complicated controller for now.
In the long run, I expect to see more of a Star Trek: the Next Generation style approach in luxury car designs in general, in which customizable touch screens are everywhere and hard buttons are considered old-fashioned.
05-14-12, 11:34 AM
#33
I consider myself quite technologically savvy, and a relatively "quick" computer user (eg. I use keyboard shortcuts in MS Office, and try to avoid using the mouse).
I think the controls on my GS350 blow away anything I've used before. My benchmark is only my dad's 2012 CLS550, my friends 2011 S4, and my mom's 2009 LX570. So I can't speak for BMW or the newer A6 interface... but after taking a couple of days to get used to it - I can't think of many ways to improve the interface on the GS350.
The force feedback is great and accurate (the sensitivity that comes set as default is perfect, but you can reduce it), and aside from radio controls it's intuitive and quick. I still think they can make some tweaks when going through presets...
The voice control is also the best I've ever used. Same with the manual address/keyboard entry.
My two cents..
Another cent: Maybe the interface requires a bit of use (a few days of regular driving), and most reviewers don't put in that type of time...
I think the controls on my GS350 blow away anything I've used before. My benchmark is only my dad's 2012 CLS550, my friends 2011 S4, and my mom's 2009 LX570. So I can't speak for BMW or the newer A6 interface... but after taking a couple of days to get used to it - I can't think of many ways to improve the interface on the GS350.
The force feedback is great and accurate (the sensitivity that comes set as default is perfect, but you can reduce it), and aside from radio controls it's intuitive and quick. I still think they can make some tweaks when going through presets...
The voice control is also the best I've ever used. Same with the manual address/keyboard entry.
My two cents..
Another cent: Maybe the interface requires a bit of use (a few days of regular driving), and most reviewers don't put in that type of time...
Selecting these functions without looking is impossible with a touch sreen interface. I love the feedback, but you need to adjust it so it's confortable for you. I also removed the sound feedback, as I found this unnessary and a bit annoying. I also agree the voice recognition is the best I've seen. Just my 2 cents.
05-14-12, 11:46 AM
#34
You may be right on this, I'm certainly not an expert. I do find it interesting, though, that even 5+ years after touch screens started appearing in cars, and in a time when touch technology is ultra-cheap to add to an LCD screen (witness the many sub-$200 touch screen tablets/phones), that more cars have not simply whole-heartedly adopted touch screens as their primary interaction technique. If it is by far and away the simplest best interface for a car information system, and is a cheap widely available technology, why aren't all these non-touch screen approaches being abandoned? In fact, why do you see some car makers stepping back from touch screens?
Maybe it's just that car makers are slow to adopt new approaches. I wonder, though, if the fact that you have to look carefully at a touch screen to operate it, and the only good feedback that you got what you wanted is visual also is part of the reason. This doesn't work as well in an environment where your eyes are supposed to be watching the road.
Touch screens are the best for users performing novel interactions they're not familiar with where they need to be led or prompted through the interaction, if they can watch the screen. Performing simple repetitive interactions you do the same way every day (e.g. operating the controls of your car) when you need to watch the road calls for something else. I don't know if it's remote touch, but so far that seems a reasonable approach for me.
I think this dichotomy is why some people who don't spend a significant amount of time with the remote touch interface are unlikely to appreciate it as much as someone who has to live with it.
Maybe it's just that car makers are slow to adopt new approaches. I wonder, though, if the fact that you have to look carefully at a touch screen to operate it, and the only good feedback that you got what you wanted is visual also is part of the reason. This doesn't work as well in an environment where your eyes are supposed to be watching the road.
Touch screens are the best for users performing novel interactions they're not familiar with where they need to be led or prompted through the interaction, if they can watch the screen. Performing simple repetitive interactions you do the same way every day (e.g. operating the controls of your car) when you need to watch the road calls for something else. I don't know if it's remote touch, but so far that seems a reasonable approach for me.
I think this dichotomy is why some people who don't spend a significant amount of time with the remote touch interface are unlikely to appreciate it as much as someone who has to live with it.
05-14-12, 01:08 PM
#35
nantong: I have to disagree on touch screens. I don't feel they're the way to go with car interfaces. Like others said, touch screens work when your hands aren't meant to be in other places. The more you have to look at something other than the road, the more potential you have for "errors".
bitkahuna: I could be wrong and there could be better ones out there. However, I can get an address into the system in less than thirty seconds. I've turned off all the prompts and now that I notice (and use) the "suggestions" when it mishears you, it's very quick. I'd love to hear what other systems you think are better so I can try them. Please keep in mind I'm using address/destination entry as my main use case.
Others: What are your thoughts on the voice control? What's out there that is better - and how?
Hoovey2411: +1 - I agree with you. It may seem counter-intuitive based on where people think consumer electronics are going, but it makes sense for cars.
When I mentioned the CLS550, S4, and LX570 - I should have also mentioned my wife's EX35. But I didn't even consider that a contender
. I also test drove a 2009 RDX a while ago and didn't like it - but I also can't pass judgment based on playing with it for 15 minutes.
bitkahuna: I could be wrong and there could be better ones out there. However, I can get an address into the system in less than thirty seconds. I've turned off all the prompts and now that I notice (and use) the "suggestions" when it mishears you, it's very quick. I'd love to hear what other systems you think are better so I can try them. Please keep in mind I'm using address/destination entry as my main use case.
Others: What are your thoughts on the voice control? What's out there that is better - and how?
Hoovey2411: +1 - I agree with you. It may seem counter-intuitive based on where people think consumer electronics are going, but it makes sense for cars.
When I mentioned the CLS550, S4, and LX570 - I should have also mentioned my wife's EX35. But I didn't even consider that a contender
. I also test drove a 2009 RDX a while ago and didn't like it - but I also can't pass judgment based on playing with it for 15 minutes.
05-15-12, 05:08 PM
#36
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When I test drove and did my research my biggest concern with the GS was the interface and navigation (menu options / layers) to the system.
Once I found out that you can adjust the haptic feedback strength I was able to just tweak it and it works well for me now. Going from the small screen to the large screen to select an option, to avoid over shooting as the reviewer mentioned, I nudge the controller to send the curser over and after it appears on the large screen (or vise versa for that matter) I then continue to the selection I want. I have found that trying to go strait to your selection (with constant force on the controller) will cause you to just bounce around, well at least me.
Once I found out that you can adjust the haptic feedback strength I was able to just tweak it and it works well for me now. Going from the small screen to the large screen to select an option, to avoid over shooting as the reviewer mentioned, I nudge the controller to send the curser over and after it appears on the large screen (or vise versa for that matter) I then continue to the selection I want. I have found that trying to go strait to your selection (with constant force on the controller) will cause you to just bounce around, well at least me.
05-16-12, 05:27 AM
#37
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When I took my LS in for service yesterday, the loaner was a new RX with the joystick NAV system - and overall, I was pretty disappointed in what I saw.
The joystick isn't too difficult to use and is a reasonable trade-off to move the display into a better location higher on the dash and closer to the road - though it is more time consuming to enter numbers and text.
My major disappointment was with how little improvement has been made in the last 5 model years since I got my 07 LS - the navigation software is still basically the same - and much of the functionality is locked out while the car is moving.
At some point, the car manufacturers will (hopefully) realize the onboard electronics/infotainment systems are software - and not "firmware" - and that consumers will want to see periodic software updates - like we have for our computers and smartphones. And especially since we can keep the cars for years, we want to see new features added to the systems - without requiring us to buy an entirely new car.
The joystick isn't too difficult to use and is a reasonable trade-off to move the display into a better location higher on the dash and closer to the road - though it is more time consuming to enter numbers and text.
My major disappointment was with how little improvement has been made in the last 5 model years since I got my 07 LS - the navigation software is still basically the same - and much of the functionality is locked out while the car is moving.
At some point, the car manufacturers will (hopefully) realize the onboard electronics/infotainment systems are software - and not "firmware" - and that consumers will want to see periodic software updates - like we have for our computers and smartphones. And especially since we can keep the cars for years, we want to see new features added to the systems - without requiring us to buy an entirely new car.
05-16-12, 12:05 PM
#38
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I test drove a CT200 with this and it's horrible!
I find it quite ridiculous that Lexus have chosen to move back 15 years or so to joystick controls just as the world fully embraces touch screens on tablets and phones. It's like something out of the ark, I gather they copied BMW idrive?
Big mistake. I'll stick to my nice Mk 3 GS touchscreen until they sort themselves out...
Last edited by alpine; 05-16-12 at 12:12 PM.
05-16-12, 01:00 PM
#39
Lead Lap
Yeah, the GS joystick is awful. Tried using it today, while driving....not possible. Might as well let my 2 year old drive...same result. At least put a GD "ENTER" button on the sides like they have for the RX....trying to move the joystick and then push down all the while hoping to Christ it doesn't move in the process is infuriating. One of these automakers needs to partner with Apple, or Google, or whoever, just get it right. Ford/Microsoft is not the model.
/rant
/rant
05-16-12, 04:39 PM
#40
Most of the old folks that buy LS don't like to learn new stuff especially if it ain't broken. NO JOY STICK/ MOUSE/ CONTROL PAD WHATEVER THE HELL IT IS AND NO NAVIGATION IN THE DASH! If i want the navigation in the dash, i would of buy a BMW, MB, OR ACURA. I am really worry about this, because i am a future LS buyer.
05-16-12, 05:14 PM
#41
When I took my LS in for service yesterday, the loaner was a new RX with the joystick NAV system - and overall, I was pretty disappointed in what I saw.
The joystick isn't too difficult to use and is a reasonable trade-off to move the display into a better location higher on the dash and closer to the road - though it is more time consuming to enter numbers and text.
My major disappointment was with how little improvement has been made in the last 5 model years since I got my 07 LS - the navigation software is still basically the same - and much of the functionality is locked out while the car is moving.
At some point, the car manufacturers will (hopefully) realize the onboard electronics/infotainment systems are software - and not "firmware" - and that consumers will want to see periodic software updates - like we have for our computers and smartphones. And especially since we can keep the cars for years, we want to see new features added to the systems - without requiring us to buy an entirely new car.
The joystick isn't too difficult to use and is a reasonable trade-off to move the display into a better location higher on the dash and closer to the road - though it is more time consuming to enter numbers and text.
My major disappointment was with how little improvement has been made in the last 5 model years since I got my 07 LS - the navigation software is still basically the same - and much of the functionality is locked out while the car is moving.
At some point, the car manufacturers will (hopefully) realize the onboard electronics/infotainment systems are software - and not "firmware" - and that consumers will want to see periodic software updates - like we have for our computers and smartphones. And especially since we can keep the cars for years, we want to see new features added to the systems - without requiring us to buy an entirely new car.
Granted, even with the touch version of our LS, I don't think it's very responsive. I want to type quickly and move on. I don't like the lag between 'button' pushes personally......
As for continual updates, I concur, but it's like cellphones......yes they release updates, but by the time many do that you're wanting to get a different phone anyways. I thin kit's a novel thought, but it's a pipe dream to think they'll get rid of a pure profit center of $300 map upgrades......
05-16-12, 08:14 PM
#42
Ok I have a ct200h loaner car and the joystick thing isn't bad. Though I do remember the one in the new GS being a little different feel wise. The ct seems notchier which is nice so you can feel what you're selecting. I remember the gs being smoother. Too smooth for a good feel of what is selected.
05-16-12, 09:37 PM
#43
Pole Position
Interesting review by Cnet (who clearly like the car, based on the review), but listen around the 2:05 mark, where the reviewer refers to the new joystick control as a "Disaster"
http://reviews.cnet.com/sedan/2013-l...contentBody;1r
I know this is a review on the GS, but I'm an LS owner, and I assume that the new LS is going to have this same exact control, right? Let's hope that Lexus improves it, because based on the demo, it's not something I would ever deal with!
John
http://reviews.cnet.com/sedan/2013-l...contentBody;1r
I know this is a review on the GS, but I'm an LS owner, and I assume that the new LS is going to have this same exact control, right? Let's hope that Lexus improves it, because based on the demo, it's not something I would ever deal with!
John
