Outrage

I think most of the perceived ride/handling differences between the F Sport and Luxury trim levels are due to the lower profile tires found on the F Sport. Personally, I didn't notice much of a difference in capability or feel between the two trim levels.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

^^ but ldh (rear steer) isn't automatically a part of f-sport so your post adds to the confusion i think

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Again, parts can be identical and software can make cars handle differently

Outrage

Dynamic Rear Steering isn't available on the AWD models; which is what I drove. The AWD models sit a little higher so I assume they use different springs than the RWD models. That adds even more variables to the equation.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

what i can think of would be the brakes and the wheels

19" with lower profile tires can make quite some difference. plus the brakes, the fsport has bigger brakes i think (can't remember if only fsport has 2 piece rotors which are lighter).

and until there is actual proof saying software is doing anything different, which we have yet to see any, i cannot believe such a case. both called S+, and due to cost i doubt the shocks have more than 2 settings. if the shocks have more than 2 settings and someone look at the strut tower motor and see that the fsport s+ turns more than the luxury, then i believe so

flipside909

Yeah that would be cool. At least a 10mm drop just like the Nurburgring Package LFA vs. the standard.

Theoretically, if the F Sport and the Luxury package AVS dampers were the same, it could be possible that the AVS controller can turn the damper pin a few turns further to be stiffer. From what I was told about the GS suspension, the F Sport version was tuned heavier for both spring and shock. I'm only going by what Lexus has shared with us. Let me see if I can get a more definitive answer. The F Sport does ride on 19's with better tires and lower profiles. The Luxury package rides on 18's with quiet all season tires but it does handle nicely, definitely an improvement over last generation.

Rear Steering package from what I heard was that it would be discontinued. So far that seems to hold true as most of the GS F Sport models sold here in the Western Area have been packaged as F Sport w/Mark Levinson. When GS first launched a few months ago, ML was not available with F Sport and a handful of the F Sport models came with LDH w/Dynamic Rear Steer.

motohide

My school of thought is that when suspensions systems work well, and fits the dynamic character of the vehicle, that one doesn't need much 'tuning' beyond that. When I setup race cars, I use a widely adjustable suspension, but once I get a good solid setup, I don't really screw with anything too much unless the venue or conditions are severely different like wet conditions, or between large gaps in tire adhesion like concrete track vs asphalt.

Most of the variables can be fine tuned well enough by first, becoming a more skilled driver, and two, adjusting more basic but larger variable like stuff in the trunk, or fuel levels that offsets the weight balance and loading of suspension, or things like tire pressures.

Equally, I setup most street cars to be a bit more dynamically capable, sacrificing noise of tires or damper/spring tuning. And again, once I find something I like, I don't really touch the adjustments, or alignments. I just put in seat time, and hone my driving to compensate for lack of skills to do whatever I needed to do and failed in the past.

The 4th Lexus GS sedan standard model may be a bit soft on the raceway, but I have found that the dynamic feedback and response to driver inputs are really well sorted. So much so that I felt that the F-Sport package cars simply felt stiffer, but not necessarily better.
It feels snappy at initial inputs, but really doesn't gain much in terms of composure that is already excellent.

So it almost feels like what the engineers were after was a flavoring of the feedback to the driver, and not higher performance thresholds or numbers at the expense of general dynamic character, that is fun to drive.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

this, and no power fold mirrors, no power close trunk, no 450h f-sport, no f-sport fogs, seems like lexus u.s. is trying everything to disappoint customers.

there might be another reason, which is, given the competitive pricing in the u.s., it might be more profitable for lexus to sell vehicles elsewhere.

motohide

Those may all be factors too, but I think what is at the core theme of making cars at Toyota in general, seems to be shifting for making great core attributes on each car, and to do with less gimmicks that was short term marketing draw features, and spending more time on the core necessities that make each car more refined as an automobile. And adding value to those who can appreciate automobiles in a more refined sense than bells and whistles.

Having said that, Lexus is a brand with prominent history of great bells and whistles, so it might be something which may feel a bit alienating at times. But in the case of the GS350, losing the rear wheel steer, might be one of these core focus driven move. To have a capable responsive chassis that is void of wonders at low speeds, and give more of a true dynamic stability at higher limits where driver interactions can really be at one with the excellent unibody and sub-components.

that's my guess...

flipside909

Yeah all the cool features are available outside of the US and Canadian market. It would be nice to have all the luxuries of the GS because I do like to have those options on my car. I had power folding mirrors on my 07 GS, although they were not the auto power folding, they were still nice to have.

flipside909

Okay so far this is what I have been able to get clarification on. The AVS shock units are the same for F Sport and Luxury. They are tuned differently meaning the F Sport dampening is tighter than Luxury for obvious reasons. They are 20 way adjustable shock dampers made by KYB but they are preset for one specific dampening rate for their respective applications. KYB historically has been the OE shock supplier for Toyota since Gen 1 GS. As for actual dampening rates and values, I am still getting more clarification on that.

KYB is the OE shock supplier for LFA.

natnut

Here's a poster who owned and drives 2 RWD F-Sports, one with DRS and one without. Here's his input comparing DRS F-Sport vs nonDRS F-Sport :



https://www.clublexus.com/forums/7278561-post13.html