rayaans

People are not willing to pay more for german cars. In fact, people get basic stripped out Mercs and BMW's because its cheaper and they dont need options. Fair enough to them, but if you want a full package, Lexus is better. Besides, over here in the UK, the GS450h F Sport costs more than the 535i M Sport and E350 but people still buy it because it looks different to all the bland german vehicles.

CincyBrad

Want to know what's an insult to customers? Not including common features found on cars that cost half as much The E350 I drove, with a $59k sticker price, was an absolute EMBARRASSMENT for the asking price. That much cash for a car with vinyl seats and halogen lights from 30 years ago? Yeah, no thank you.

It's amusing that you want to complain about Lexus removing features, german brands don't give you any features to start with, yet the base price of the car doesn't reflect it. MB and BMW are the kings of that crap unless you're buying an S550/7 series for $100k+.

HUSKERnKS

What I find funny, is people who buy a car knowing full well what the features are, then complain about what it doesnt have.

tankton

Yes, however, they at least give you the option to purchase said features. If one was really looking for a value, Hyundai and Kia are up for offers. Once we get past 50k, "value" doesn't really hold as much meaning, especially when cars are only marginally different from one another, nowadays (unless if life was one big racetrack...).

As for the other poster, the GS450h is in a class of one (unless if BMW/MB bother selling their frankly useless E/5 hybrids). Then again, I'd bet more diesel 4cyl or 6 cyl german saloons are sold there than any Lexus hybrid.

85NBW

I just received my 2013 AWD GS last week. I'm at a point in life where I can finally afford a car in the price range of Lexus, Audi, BMW and M-B. I had my heart set on the M-B E350 4Matic Coupe. So how did I end up with my Lexus? I found that the quality of the the Lexus was superior to the German cars in respect to materials used, comfort of ride, interior comfort and reliability. If I'm going to spend 55K+ on a car, do I really want to worry about frequent repairs? After driving Toyota's for 25+years, I know that when you buy one you take pretty much what is on them. The same with my GS when I bought it, it had 1-2 options I could do without, but they were not deal-breakers. I love the Lux+Cold Weather package, Levison stereo and BSM.
After I drove the German cars, I knew I'd buy a Lexus, much better ride.

Gruu

Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies and insights! In summary, your comments seem to boil down to:

- The 2013 GS handles better than the BMW 535i.
- The German brands, especially M-B, continue to be plagued by reliability issues.
- Lexus uses better materials, and they offer as standard what the Germans charge a premium for.
- For what you get, Lexus provides a significantly better value, and that value is only enhanced by its reliability.

These are all good points. As bnlexus said, reliability is priority zero for me, since this is going to be my only car, and I'd like to be able to keep it for 8-10 years like I've done with my current ES. As far as materials qualityis concerned, I will say that I do find the leather on my friends' BMWs a bit on the hard side (not uncomfortable, just softer than I'm used to), and I especially dislike BMW's decision to use wood for the rear armrests (which are perhaps better described as handles) on my friend's X3. I would have preferred that to be a soft-touch surface, and from what I've seen of pictures online, the GS 350 (and the RX 350 for that matter) indeed has soft-touch surfaces there. On the whole, I definitely favor luxury over sportiness, but it might be fun to enjoy both for the next decade or so instead of just buying another ES. :-)

Some of you also asked me questions, which I'll try to answer all at once here (apologies if I missed yours):

- To those who asked why I didn't put Audi on my list, I used to like Audi interiors back in the day, and I still think they have sharp exteriors. However, I find their more recent center consoles too cluttered for my tastes. My boss has a fully-loaded A6, while a friend of mine has an A5. While they're certainly very nice cars, their interior styling just doesn't work for me.
- GS250 asked whether I've test-driven the cars yet. I haven't, since I'm still 12-18 months away from a purchase, so I think it's too early for that. Waiting a year gives all the cars a chance to improve (or regress), and might also make CPOs an option if I find one I like.

larryinWA

I looked at all the german cars as well, but was leaning toward lexus. When I read all the reviews of the 4th generation GS, that made the difference for me. Near Microsoft, I'm surrounded by BMW's, Audi's, Mercedes, not to mention the high-priced imports (lotus, Bugatti, etc.). Icouldn't be happier with my decision to get the 350. At this point, though, I'd wait for the 2014.

zicogold

Gruu, a friend is currently driving a 5 series and previously was driving an E-Class. He complains that the quality on M-B was much better.

CincyBrad

Since yo are going to keep it 8-10 years, no Germans. Out of warranty expense will kill you.

GS250

I suggest you do some test drives and share your thought. My previously ride was a Subaru Legacy GT and honestly, the 4GS takes corner as competently as the LGT and my 250 Lux version non F sport) is not even a AWD like the LGT. My only complain is that the Drive Mode "Sport+" selection switch is not available at the steering, It is much easier to work on a switch on the steering when you need it urgently, if you know what I mean

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

It comes down to most BMW/MB buyers feel that Lexus isn't an equal prestigious luxury brand.I know more than a few people who feel that way.
BMW/MB people don't care about reliabilty.Most BMW/MB are leased or most owners get another before or at basic warranty end.

praetor

I couldn't agree with you more. Lexus has always had an uphill climb in the luxury car market. Despite being a top three contender in the luxury car market, they do not have the prestige of BMW/MB still.

It's the same way in the sports car market. You can build an LFA, Corvette ZR1, Skyline GTR ..etc. that runs on par with the Italians but you will never get the prestige of owning an Italian supercar.

kh4nh

Just down shift (even when in drive) when you need power urgently

rayaans

Its not down to that. Its down to buyers being fools. Some people just buy cars for the badge. Lexus are still relatively new in the market compared to bmw and Mercedes and for the past decade theyve made boring vehicles. Its beginning to get interesting now, especially with the F Sport models.

dseag2

I traded an '11 Audi S5 Cabriolet for my GS F Sport because I needed something more practical. The Audi was a $68k car and IMO is one of the best on the road when it comes to looks, interior quality and driving experience. With that said, I didn't feel like I compromised at all with the GS. The only thing I sacrificed was open air driving, but I just open my sunroof if I'm feeling the need for Vitamin D! Oh, and also I sacrificed possible multiple trips to the dealer for service down the road.