Lexus debuts 2016 GS F (Pictures Starting on Page 8)
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01-07-15, 06:26 PM
#363
Badge and image are important but only to the extent that they can be backed up by actual performance. And by performance I don't mean blistering 0-60 times or whatever metric you might consider important. I'm looking at the whole car and whether it fills the purpose for which it was designed. The GSF is designed as a powerful luxury sports sedan that appeals to enthusiasts while being accessible to amateurs at a price point that makes economic sense. Who cares what the M5's horsepower is? It's irrelevant to most GSF buyers who will, as you admitted, not even track their cars. Most buyers will want the GSF to be a posh, competent, reliable, fast car that transports its passengers from point A to point B in style and with some exclusivity. The GSF only has to be good enough to be a winner. You don't have to beat that M5 to the red light en route to Whole Foods to the last friggin millisecond.
I get that luxury sports cars are considered an image maker or status symbol for a lot of people. They are a surrogate marker for one's wealth. They are not a marker of your racing ability since you don't even track your car. They are not a marker of your ingenuity since you didn't actually invent the car yourself. All you really did was write the check to pay for the car. It's a marker of wealth. Since we can't advertise our wealth by pasting our stock portfolios and bank accounts on our foreheads for everyone to see - that would be crass - we drive around in 500hp loud sports sedans like the M5 to announce that we have arrived, financially speaking. That would not be crass.
I get that luxury sports cars are considered an image maker or status symbol for a lot of people. They are a surrogate marker for one's wealth. They are not a marker of your racing ability since you don't even track your car. They are not a marker of your ingenuity since you didn't actually invent the car yourself. All you really did was write the check to pay for the car. It's a marker of wealth. Since we can't advertise our wealth by pasting our stock portfolios and bank accounts on our foreheads for everyone to see - that would be crass - we drive around in 500hp loud sports sedans like the M5 to announce that we have arrived, financially speaking. That would not be crass.
I understand that most people feel that the new gsf not meeting the 500 hp mark was a let down. To me it's not a deal breaker. Honestly, I'm just excited lexus came out with the gsf. I remember when the new gs came out and I sat in the car for the first time, I was like this is the nicest interior I have ever seen. Then I thought to bad it doesnt have the isf V8. To me there will always be a faster car that you can buy but it's how the car as a whole is packaged. This interior with nearly 500 hp is a homerun. I drove the rcf and the motor was very strong and should be more then adequate in the gsf. I bought my first German car in the R8 and yes it nice but I miss the refinement, tech, and reliability of a lexus. To really enjoy a fast car like an R8 it seems you need to drive it on the limit. With gsf you can cruise around enjoying the luxury but have the power if you need it. I know I will be buying one.
01-07-15, 06:48 PM
#364
I understand that most people feel that the new gsf not meeting the 500 hp mark was a let down. To me it's not a deal breaker. Honestly, I'm just excited lexus came out with the gsf. I remember when the new gs came out and I sat in the car for the first time, I was like this is the nicest interior I have ever seen. Then I thought to bad it doesnt have the isf V8. To me there will always be a faster car that you can buy but it's how the car as a whole is packaged. This interior with nearly 500 hp is a homerun. I drove the rcf and the motor was very strong and should be more then adequate in the gsf. I bought my first German car in the R8 and yes it nice but I miss the refinement, tech, and reliability of a lexus. To really enjoy a fast car like an R8 it seems you need to drive it on the limit. With gsf you can cruise around enjoying the luxury but have the power if you need it. I know I will be buying one.
01-07-15, 06:53 PM
#365
Just as the traditional naturally aspirated underpowered GS350 is a competitor to the 535i 3.0 Twin Turbo, the IS F is a competitor to the M3, and the RC F is a competitor to the M4, so the GS F is a competitor to the M5.
Lexus is very slow and thorough when it comes to developing their technologies like lithium ion batteries for hybrids, and small capacity turbos, so we must accept the power deficiency across the range for the meantime.
On the bright side, their traditional atmospheric engines have instant response, and a flatter torque curve.
Regardless, a car is not just based on horsepower alone, but on the sum of its parts, so it is the whole package including the handling etc that counts...
Lexus is very slow and thorough when it comes to developing their technologies like lithium ion batteries for hybrids, and small capacity turbos, so we must accept the power deficiency across the range for the meantime.
On the bright side, their traditional atmospheric engines have instant response, and a flatter torque curve.
Regardless, a car is not just based on horsepower alone, but on the sum of its parts, so it is the whole package including the handling etc that counts...
01-07-15, 06:54 PM
#366
Lexus Fanatic
I have never one time felt my GS350 was underpowered lol
I can't imagine feeling that the same car with 160 more HP would feel underpowered either.
I can't imagine feeling that the same car with 160 more HP would feel underpowered either.
01-07-15, 07:10 PM
#367
Great looking car. The design is actually quite conservative despite the grill. It exudes understated luxury. The power is more than enough for me. I will use it as a daily driver 99% of the time. This car is essentially the current GS with an RCF engine. The current GS is a fine, great handling car, except maybe a tad underpowered. Putting the RCF engine in it fixes the problem. I applaud Lexus for its measured, evolutionary approach to making new cars. I applaud it for avoiding the temptation to engage in a horsepower arms race with the Germans. If the goal is merely to make a 1000 HP car with 1000 lb ft of torque, I'm sure Toyota/Lexus - with all its money - can do that. But it's not all about HP and torque (unless you are a teenage racer wannabe who fantasizes about cars you can't afford to buy anyway). But this car is a sensible, responsible product that balances power, sportiness, and luxury.
01-07-15, 07:11 PM
#368
Lexus Test Driver
I don't know how all this nike headlight crazy fishnet grille styling is going to fare in 8 years. Hopefully it's a fad they're going through trying to attract younger buyers and they'll get over it as today's college grads migrate into middle management and get fatter salaries. Even BMW, masters of timeless design (honestly the E46 still makes me drool), had a Bangle phase that wrecked the 5 series styling and even smacked into the 6.
I think it's been said that Lexus (and definitely not the first to say this) wanted "polarizing" style. They have it. It's a love it or hate it design paradigm they've jumped off into for these sport models. I think the 4GS F Sport is the last modest design we will see from them for maybe a decade.
Anyway, bla bla bla. Gentlemen, as you were.
01-07-15, 07:22 PM
#369
However, today there is a crazy zest for horsepower, and for 0-60 times even under 4 seconds, especially amongst forum members.
01-07-15, 07:22 PM
#370
Lexus Test Driver
For that matter, I still really enjoy seeing a nice pearl white 3GS from time to time. They really nailed the taillight design and the profile. My uncle owns one and I let him drive my 4GS FSport shortly after I got it. He fell in love but stopped short of saying he'd trade his in a heartbeat. Still loves his 3GS.
I don't know how all this nike headlight crazy fishnet grille styling is going to fare in 8 years. Hopefully it's a fad they're going through trying to attract younger buyers and they'll get over it as today's college grads migrate into middle management and get fatter salaries. Even BMW, masters of timeless design (honestly the E46 still makes me drool), had a Bangle phase that wrecked the 5 series styling and even smacked into the 6.
I think it's been said that Lexus (and definitely not the first to say this) wanted "polarizing" style. They have it. It's a love it or hate it design paradigm they've jumped off into for these sport models. I think the 4GS F Sport is the last modest design we will see from them for maybe a decade.
I don't know how all this nike headlight crazy fishnet grille styling is going to fare in 8 years. Hopefully it's a fad they're going through trying to attract younger buyers and they'll get over it as today's college grads migrate into middle management and get fatter salaries. Even BMW, masters of timeless design (honestly the E46 still makes me drool), had a Bangle phase that wrecked the 5 series styling and even smacked into the 6.
I think it's been said that Lexus (and definitely not the first to say this) wanted "polarizing" style. They have it. It's a love it or hate it design paradigm they've jumped off into for these sport models. I think the 4GS F Sport is the last modest design we will see from them for maybe a decade.
Bwahahhaa. Yes gents, please continue..
01-07-15, 07:30 PM
#371
Lexus Fanatic
I also like some of the small interior changes that got overlooked. How about the new A/C vents? Integrate better with the trim. New blackface clock. Not sure what to think of the changes to the RTC? I don't know why that wouldn't become uniform across the brand.
01-07-15, 07:33 PM
#372
After reading all 24 pages I finally arrived at the conclusion that Lexus GS no longer competes with the 5 series, E Class and Audi A6. We should not compare the GS to any direct competitors. The car is in its own class now.
GS-F competes with RC-F, and both are trying to take on LF-A. They even stole the gauges!
GS-F competes with RC-F, and both are trying to take on LF-A. They even stole the gauges!
01-07-15, 07:37 PM
#373
After reading all 24 pages I finally arrived at the conclusion that Lexus GS no longer competes with the 5 series, E Class and Audi A6. We should not compare the GS to any direct competitors. The car is in its own class now.
GS-F competes with RC-F, and both are trying to take on LF-A. They even stole the gauges!
GS-F competes with RC-F, and both are trying to take on LF-A. They even stole the gauges!
01-07-15, 07:39 PM
#374
Lexus Fanatic
The bottom line is, the hard core BMW enthusiast that spends the coin on an M5 is not a "conquestable" consumer. Lexus could build a 1,000HP car that gives you a handy whenever it goes above 4000 RPM and they would still buy an M5. So...really...competing with the M5 is just an exercise in ego. They can say "this is a better car than an M5" and the buyers will say "Great!" as they walk into the BMW dealer to take delivery of their M5s.
What they seem to be doing, to me anyways, is creating a car for Lexus legacy buyer the way they feel a Lexus enthusiast would want a high performance F Model Lexus to be. They feel thats an NA car...they feel that its an entire package car and not a car driven by stats...clearly.
Personally, I like that. Are they correct in their assessment of what a Lexus enthusiast wants?...not so sure. I guess we'll see.
What they seem to be doing, to me anyways, is creating a car for Lexus legacy buyer the way they feel a Lexus enthusiast would want a high performance F Model Lexus to be. They feel thats an NA car...they feel that its an entire package car and not a car driven by stats...clearly.
Personally, I like that. Are they correct in their assessment of what a Lexus enthusiast wants?...not so sure. I guess we'll see.
01-07-15, 07:50 PM
#375
The bottom line is, the hard core BMW enthusiast that spends the coin on an M5 is not a "conquestable" consumer. Lexus could build a 1,000HP car that gives you a handy whenever it goes above 4000 RPM and they would still buy an M5. So...really...competing with the M5 is just an exercise in ego. They can say "this is a better car than an M5" and the buyers will say "Great!" as they walk into the BMW dealer to take delivery of their M5s.
What they seem to be doing, to me anyways, is creating a car for Lexus legacy buyer the way they feel a Lexus enthusiast would want a high performance F Model Lexus to be. They feel thats an NA car...they feel that its an entire package car and not a car driven by stats...clearly.
Personally, I like that. Are they correct in their assessment of what a Lexus enthusiast wants?...not so sure. I guess we'll see.
What they seem to be doing, to me anyways, is creating a car for Lexus legacy buyer the way they feel a Lexus enthusiast would want a high performance F Model Lexus to be. They feel thats an NA car...they feel that its an entire package car and not a car driven by stats...clearly.
Personally, I like that. Are they correct in their assessment of what a Lexus enthusiast wants?...not so sure. I guess we'll see.
What does concern me is the seemingly incoherent design that has been created by putting a round, prominent front end on a car that is essentially slab-sided and square in the back. It just doesn't flow in the pics. If I can get over the design in person I will have no problems with the performance. I wouldn't even consider an M5, so this would be my next step up from my GS F Sport.