Transmission Fluid - Change or Not? (Merged threads)
11-20-20, 10:17 PM
#288
Lexus Fanatic
In other markets they do transmission fluid changes on the GS I believe. There are drain and fill bolts so I don't know exactly whats going on why they don't do it in the US.
I would like to add some new/fresh fluid in the transmission, maybe not a drain and fill, just take/suction a little old fluid out and add the same fresh amount in for a piece of mind, check condition.
I would like to add some new/fresh fluid in the transmission, maybe not a drain and fill, just take/suction a little old fluid out and add the same fresh amount in for a piece of mind, check condition.
11-20-20, 10:32 PM
#289
11-21-20, 02:55 AM
#290
Correct, IMO it's dictated by market position and cost
Minimisation of maintenance costs. Even here, cars are advertised based on free/cheap servicing plans, rather than features etc.
A drain and fill will be no less effort, no fluids are for life, might as well. Unless you have a perfectly flat area, the overflow fill method won't work (just ask me 
) so you'd want to measure and replace, or just drain and fill a few times and have a shop level it perfectly.
I'd personally do a pan drop. I don't want to start this debate so this will be my final post on the topic here, but the main reason for servicing the transmission is to clean the magnets and replace additives that keep seals fresh etc. As it slowly wears, you want to keep that gunk out of the valve body. The fluid may last forever but there's more to it than that. You don't want to be in a position at 230000kms where the only thing applying enough friction to keep the car running is the grit in the tranny oil...by then it's too late.
) so you'd want to measure and replace, or just drain and fill a few times and have a shop level it perfectly.I'd personally do a pan drop. I don't want to start this debate so this will be my final post on the topic here, but the main reason for servicing the transmission is to clean the magnets and replace additives that keep seals fresh etc. As it slowly wears, you want to keep that gunk out of the valve body. The fluid may last forever but there's more to it than that. You don't want to be in a position at 230000kms where the only thing applying enough friction to keep the car running is the grit in the tranny oil...by then it's too late.
11-21-20, 05:52 AM
#291
Really, here is what it comes down to. This is the 4G GS Forum, so all of you have a 2013 or later model. Besides Peasodos, how many of you are planning on keeping this car 20 years and or putting 250k miles on it? Have you ever kept a car 15 or more years? If not, my two cents is don't change the transmission oil. However, I would agree that if you plan on keeping the car for 20 years, I do not think any fluid can possibly last that long, so have it changed at 100k, even for peace of mind. I have the 2013 GSH with 60k miles, so like Peasodos, with a ECVT, I don't plan on changing it. I am still on the original 12V battery as well, and I live in Florida. Knock on wood.
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AJLex19 (11-21-20)
11-21-20, 08:14 AM
#292
Lexus Fanatic
Correct, IMO it's dictated by market position and cost
Minimisation of maintenance costs. Even here, cars are advertised based on free/cheap servicing plans, rather than features etc.
A drain and fill will be no less effort, no fluids are for life, might as well. Unless you have a perfectly flat area, the overflow fill method won't work (just ask me) so you'd want to measure and replace, or just drain and fill a few times and have a shop level it perfectly.
I'd personally do a pan drop. I don't want to start this debate so this will be my final post on the topic here, but the main reason for servicing the transmission is to clean the magnets and replace additives that keep seals fresh etc. As it slowly wears, you want to keep that gunk out of the valve body. The fluid may last forever but there's more to it than that. You don't want to be in a position at 230000kms where the only thing applying enough friction to keep the car running is the grit in the tranny oil...by then it's too late.
Minimisation of maintenance costs. Even here, cars are advertised based on free/cheap servicing plans, rather than features etc.
A drain and fill will be no less effort, no fluids are for life, might as well. Unless you have a perfectly flat area, the overflow fill method won't work (just ask me
) so you'd want to measure and replace, or just drain and fill a few times and have a shop level it perfectly.I'd personally do a pan drop. I don't want to start this debate so this will be my final post on the topic here, but the main reason for servicing the transmission is to clean the magnets and replace additives that keep seals fresh etc. As it slowly wears, you want to keep that gunk out of the valve body. The fluid may last forever but there's more to it than that. You don't want to be in a position at 230000kms where the only thing applying enough friction to keep the car running is the grit in the tranny oil...by then it's too late.
Thing is if the trans fails due to the fluid, then Toyota/Lexus should replace the trans if they are claiming "lifetime fluid"/no service for the trans fluid. I know they will come up with every and any excuse why they don't have to replace the trans if it fails from some issues with the "lifetime" fluid but I wonder if someone could successfully make that argument/take them to court and win if it happens.
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Cwang (11-22-20)
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11-21-20, 11:59 AM
#294
But all the debate and confusion is completely warranted given how conflicting all the info is (even from "official" sources). I've researched this a lot and here are some of the more interesting points I've found, do what you want with it:
- Lexus/Toyota USA says you dont need to change it unless you are driving under harsh driving conditions (then do it at 60k miles). Explicitly that means towing, but for cars that could mean living in a mountainous area or even potentially driving hard
- Most other non- USA markets it is in the service manual for 60k miles regardless
- As linked above, Asin recommends changing it super frequently
- People have sent fluid samples of moderately high-mileage (like 65k miles) cars into Blackstone Laboratories. The results were not terrible, but do show signs of fluid breakdown and metal contaminates so the recommendation was drain and fill
- The World Standard specification (JWS 3324) was developed by Exxon-Mobilre
- The actual manufacturer/blender of the factory fluid is Idemitsu. It speculated that Idemitsu makes all of it the same but then puts it in different labeled bottles: , , , or Lexus, although Lexus labeled bottles are rare online.
- It is speculated that those "genuine" Toyota WS fluids above are all semi-synthetic (rather than full-synthetic). It has been said that it is a pretty mediocre fluid and I believe there is a study somewhere showing that it preforms quite poorly even compared to other OEM fluids.
- Many people have used Valvoline Max-life as a replacement which is a full-synthetic multi-vehicle fluid and cheap. Many say that the shifting feels better and the fluid lasts longer between changes. I have not come across a single account of it causing transmission problems, however many raise concerns as it is a "universal" fluid and the viscosity appears thicker than Toyota WS
- is the only full-synthetic fluid specifically made for (and only for) the WS application. It conforms to or exceeds the JWS-3324 specification. Not too many people have used it, as it is made in German and quite expensive to get in the US, but there are some amazon reviews singing its praises. I think I've also seen someone in one of the IS forum of clublexus use it and really like it.
Last edited by aj2pointo; 11-21-20 at 12:03 PM.
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ShinyLexi (11-27-20)
11-22-20, 07:17 AM
#295
Yes, it's lifetime, until the transmission blows, then yes, it's lifetime, it lasted until the life of the transmission, regardless the mileage, nah...I will change mine at 75k even though I babied the car, don't care what Lexus Toyota says, nothing lasts forever...
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Cwang (11-22-20)
11-22-20, 08:47 AM
#296
I am about to service the transmission in our 2013 GS. I have the Lexus filter and a bunch of Idemitsu WS equivalent.
Unless the term "lifetime fluid" can be defined, it is meaningless.
I believe Lexus uses "lifetime" as a marketing term to an extent.
I also believe there is no such thing as a lifetime fluid.
Finally, the most important ATF service is the 1st one as it removes break in debris.
Unless the term "lifetime fluid" can be defined, it is meaningless.
I believe Lexus uses "lifetime" as a marketing term to an extent.
I also believe there is no such thing as a lifetime fluid.
Finally, the most important ATF service is the 1st one as it removes break in debris.
11-22-20, 05:51 PM
#297
The drain and fill method on these cars is pretty simple (when cold). Don't see how a few fresh quarts would hurt anything. 
11-23-20, 12:49 PM
#298
So I posted that unless you are going to keep your car past 150k miles and/or 20 years, I don't think there is a solid reason to change the fluid. I know other people have said to change it yourself takes Mr. Science to do it at the correct oil temperature and level setting etc. But to 2 GR's point, if you put in what you measure you are taking out, really, how hard could it be? If you took out let's say 75 ounces and it weighed 30 grams per oz., would it be difficult to put in 225 grams of fluid. I guess the only argument is that your fluid was too low or too high from the factory (if it is a sealed system and one can't make or destroy the fluid). Like I said, I am not changing mine in the ECVT as I think my Hybrid battery will fail before the transmission. My two cents opinion, which probably is what it is worth.
11-23-20, 04:54 PM
#299
Under this scenario, lifetime does not mean FOREVER! It's means "lifetime of the transmission." If the transmission fails at 100k, then that's the "lifetime." We can debate all day long and over analyze it all. The simple truth is that no fluid lasts forever. Accept that and you can determine whether or not to change the fluid on your car.
