sunamer

Any proof or solid basis for that speculation?

in this link, aisin leaflet says that AFW+ can be used for TOYOTA WS grade. But also, a lot of other non compatible fluids like type IV and III “can be” replaced with AFW+. Does it mean it is compatible or will guarantee the same reliability and performance? Will they cover the tranny that failed because fluid was “mostly” compatible with “actual” WS? wiki on atf ws (yes, yes I know) states that “This fluid is not backward compatible with previous Toyota fluids or Dexron fluids”, so how come AFW+ (in the leaflet) is recommended for replacement of all sorts of older AT fluids? This makes little sense if you think about it.
Idemitsu also costs $35 per 5 qt, whereas WS toyota branded WS costs $55 for 5qt. That is a 57% premium for the toyota branded WS. If it was 2-3 times more expensive, i might have considered/risked idemitsu... but for just 40-50 bucks difference (every 5-6 years) I would rather go with WS ATF, because if my tranny fails, Toyota will not have good grounds to deny me the coverage due to “improper” AT fluid used.

aj2pointo

To your first question, there isn't definite proof that you have Idemitsu fluid in your GS 350, so that why I said it is speculated. I don't think anyone is ever going to be able to produce a purchase order or contract from Lexus to Idemitsu to "prove it", but there is some significant amount of "internet proof" I can point you to saying that it is the supplier for most Asian OEMs (and thus is is speculated to include Toyota and Lexus):

As to your questions about Asin's AFW+ fluid, that is a totally separate issue (its a different fluid). There used to be bottles of Asin WS ATF fluid available (I think you can still get it some places, but its not on amazon anymore at least). That's what I was saying is speculated to be produced by Idemitsu and the same as Toyota/Lexus WS bottles and all of it is the same as what is put in at the factory. Asin's AFW+ fluid is a full-synthetic multi-vehicle that is not available in the US at all. As you pointed out in that sheet, Asin's claims it is compatible with their transmissions filled with WS fluid, but by the specs sheets it has slightly different properties compared to the WS fluid. So basically AFW+ is similar to Valvoline Max-life, its a full-synthetic multi-vehicle that claims compatibility with WS fluid (and a lot of others) not to be an exact WS copy/alternative. The main point I was making with the poster was that the manufacturer of the transmission recommends regularly changing the fluid, not really anything about AFW+ because you cant even get it in the USA.

As for your warranty comments, I purchased my car out of warranty so that is not even a consideration for me. But in general if your GS 350 transmission is failing during the warranty period you are frankly just incredibly unlucky, because that would be quite rare. I'd think the people performing this service are those likely bought the car used and/or are intending intending to keep it past +150k miles, well out of the warranty period. That said if you are under warranty using the OEM Toyota WS fluid is the safest bet, yet it has been said that the dealer can tell if you changed it at all, and thus could deny your warranty claim EVEN IF you used the "official" Lexus WS fluid.

My post probably made it seem like I am pro-Idemitsu or anti-Toyota WS, but I am pretty neutral in all this and am just trying to spread information so that people can choose what's best for them. I think that the choice whether or not to change the fluid and what fluid to use really depends on the person and their intentions with their car. Personally, I will likely be using the fluid as I said, it is the only confirmed fully-synthetic fluid made exactly to the WS spec as opposed to a multi-vehicle. Its even more expensive than the Toyota WS fluid, so clearly this isn't a cost saving measure.

EyeKutr

iTrader: (5)

with all this talk, if you really want to have this done, can the dealer do it for you ? If anything goes wrong with the process, they would take care of it.

sunamer

good luck telling your lexus dealership to change tranny oil in what they call a “lifetime fluid sealed” transmission, that Lexus told them not to do.

sunamer

I am simply attacking what is being stated to see how much truth/foundation is there in those claims, so I understand them better myself. I am neutral myself, provided all three options are equivalent. I also stopped by my local toyota dealership to pickup some parts - WS is being sold there for 10 bucks a quart.

As for Ravenol or any other “spec”, I thought Toyota does not license out WS specs, so i am not sure how can we confirm it...

HamoodySur

Hey mate , I've bought a used car 2017 f sport rwd with 50k on the odo meter * in Km* . Once I got it I changed eninge oil, rear differential oil and gearbox oil with the filter and gasket. The way is straight forward . You just need a good mechanic to do it and fill it properly. So far so good .

My opinion is to change it and you would get a petter response and smooth shifting.
get the original oil/ filter , gasket from your authorised dealer

JeffKeryk

No offense meant, but using this logic, no one should ever service their car's oil, brakes, etc, because they might do it wrong.

GxPrince

I’ve got 160K miles on my 2013 and I have no issues so far. I have never changed it and I have no plans to change it. I typically have changed it regularly on all other vehicles but I’m actually interested to find out how long this ‘sealed’ trans. will last.

Im2bz2p345

Wow. Thank you for joining ClubLexus and for sharing your experience!

I hope that as you gain more miles, you continue to fill us in as there aren't many folks on here with as many miles as your vehicle.

This whole "to change or not change" the sealed transmission is a hot debate, so getting real world examples of both cases helps.

~ Im2bz2p345

peasodos

iTrader: (1)

This is what happened when someone thinks they know better, this guy bought a previous leased car that was CPO, and having transmission slip issues. Took it to the dealer and the transmission fluid level was not correct, damage could be permanent at this point. Previous owner probably did a drain/fill and got the transmission fluid level incorrect.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...l#post10947306

When Lexus doesn't recommend you do something there is a good reason for that, messing around with something that is not suppose to be serviced is not being respectful to the car or the future owner, but the exact opposite.

primavera

As for myself I listen to real world mechanics and technicians that actually work on the cars vs. the service lady at the front desk...

UDel

For the people who change the fluid I hope they keep us updated on this thread and write about their experiences. The only real safe way to do it is a drain and fill and replace exactly how much you drained by draining the fluid in a clear jug or jar or pouring it in a something clear, marking it and putting the same amount of new fluid in either the same jug or jar you put the old stuff in or a identical jug or jar. I am on the fence about doing this but if I see where a couple people did it with no issues I might do one drain and fill just to get some fresh fluid in there to be on the safe side.

sunamer

I have to disagree with this a bit. If it happened to be that the fluid level was low prior to the flush, then by doing “putting in as much as was taken out” method, we will ensure the level stays low. That is the first potential problem.. The second potential problem - if temperature of the outgoing fluid was in 100-120F range, then the fluid going in (which say was 50-60F), will expand leading to an overfilled case even though at the time of the flush, both volumes were the same..
The only proper way to check and ensure fluid level is to warm up a (dipstick-less) tranny to 104-112F and then remove the plug (but not the straw) and let it drain the excess. The correct level is reached when the fluid still trickles/drips a little bit.

GeeEss350

Temp should be 120F

sunamer

actually it is a range. No sane toyota engineer is ever gonna write tech instructions, where the temp range is 120F +-0.01.. That is too narrow. it is also model dependent. Also, at least for some toyota tranny models, it is 104-113F, which means, if you are gonna go with 120F, you will slightly under-fill it.

What is not model dependent, is that when you put the car in diagnostic mode (via a jumper wire in OBD2) you will always get to the correct temp range without having to measure it yourself.

Even my lexus is350 got into the same mode. I just confirmed it. It is the same mode, which that Toyota tech (in the video I posted previously) was getting his camry in, that he used to demonstrate the technique. Basically, when you are in that mode, the gear shift indicator tells you if you are in the right temp range for the fluid level measurement procedure to be performed correctly.

no D = that the temp is too low,
when a solid D appears instead, that means - you are in the right range,
When D starts flashing, that means it is too hot for the measurement to be done correctly.