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I heard flushing can create problems. Do I really have to do this drain and refill or flush or just stick to "if it ain't broke don't fix it"? Toyotas will run forever right? All I need is just basic oil change?
Personally, if I was only going to keep the car for 125,000 miles or less I would not do anything with the transmission fluid. If I was going to keep the car beyond 125k miles I would do enough drain & fills to replace ~75% or more of the automatic transmission fluid near 100k miles. Or, have Lexus do a flush - because if a flush stirs up debris and causes the transmission to fail it will be noticeable in the first 30-60 days, which you should still be under the warranty for the flush (and hopefully the repairs it caused). 99% of the people here will not see 125,000 miles on their odometer.
Personally, if I was only going to keep the car for 125,000 miles or less I would not do anything with the transmission fluid. If I was going to keep the car beyond 125k miles I would do enough drain & fills to replace ~75% or more of the automatic transmission fluid near 100k miles. Or, have Lexus do a flush - because if a flush stirs up debris and causes the transmission to fail it will be noticeable in the first 30-60 days, which you should still be under the warranty for the flush (and hopefully the repairs it caused). 99% of the people hear will not see 125,000 miles on their odometer.
Yeah I don't think I'll get anywhere near 100K before trading it in again!
Toyota ATF WS is known to start breaking down at 30/40k miles - its not a synthetic oil. But, its unlikely to cause problems unless you drive your car hard. If you're planning to crest 100k miles, i would suggest doing periodic drain/fills or a significant drain/fill at 50k.
Pics, i forgot to take one of the cover that hides the WS Fill plug but captured the important stuff. If you're willing to do this, the assumption is that you're able to get past the shields/underbracing that cover up most of the underbody.. As reference, this youtube video is actually 100% accurate to the work that needs to be done, just ignore the diagnostics parts.
Toyota ATF WS is known to start breaking down at 30/40k miles - its not a synthetic oil. But, its unlikely to cause problems unless you drive your car hard. If you're planning to crest 100k miles, i would suggest doing periodic drain/fills or a significant drain/fill at 50k.
To say that Toyota's WS ATF starts breaking down at 30/40k miles is a bit of a misnomer - because as with any lubricant all ATFs start their breakdown once it is first put into service lubricating and cooling the transmission. However, under typical service modern-day ATFs will perform effectively and flawlessly for well over 100,000 miles. Today's ATFs are engineered to adequately perform their task for a minimum of 10 years, 150,000 miles or 3,000 service hours. (The use of 'Lifetime' with today's ATF is used to mean the vehicle's typical lifetime before it is no longer used and is customarily destroyed.)
Unlike motor (engine) oil, automatic transmission fluids do not have to deal with raw fuel contaminating and dissolving the lubricant, combustion hydrocarbons contaminating the lubricant, or condensation buildup like engines typically develop. Toyota's WS (World Standard) automatic transmission fluid is designed by and for Toyota's transmissions. The use of Genuine Toyota WS ATF is recommended. It is NOT recommended that any other ATF be used because frictional characteristics are unlikely to be the same, which is critical to the correct operation of complex automatic transmissions. The use of additives or aftermarket fluids that are considered compatible or substitutes to Genuine Toyota WS ATF may result in shift concerns and damage to the internal transmission components.
The clutch plates in automatic transmissions have always been sensitive and susceptible to failure when replacing the automatic transmission fluid, which is responsible for lubricating and cooling its operation. The primary reason a transmission is prone to often fail soon after completely replacing the ATF is because the new ATF acts as a detergent that ends up cleansing the clutch plates of remaining friction properties that are needed for it to operate correctly. The new ATF also dissolves tarnish that can end up clogging valves and tiny portholes in the transmission's valve body. An automatic transmission is just one of those things that is best not messed with when it comes to its lubrication, but if the lubricant is messed with for the purpose of hopefully extending its life it is 'always best' to use the same exact ATF that originally was used to fill the transmission at the factory...and to do numerous drain-n-fills over a prolonged period of time (e.g. months preferred to days or hours) so-as not to plaque the delicate internal operation of the complex transmission. Flushing an automatic transmission with new ATF has always been the cause of an alarmingly, significantly high percentage of failed transmissions soon after it was done. The automatic transmission, like the human brain, is best left alone as long as it is performing as it should.
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Unlike motor (engine) oil, automatic transmission fluids do not have to deal with raw fuel contaminating and dissolving the lubricant, combustion hydrocarbons contaminating the lubricant, or condensation buildup like engines typically develop. Toyota's WS (World Standard) automatic transmission fluid is designed by and for Toyota's transmissions. The use of Genuine Toyota WS ATF is recommended. It is NOT recommended that any other ATF be used because frictional characteristics are unlikely to be the same, which is critical to the correct operation of complex automatic transmissions. The use of additives or aftermarket fluids that are considered compatible or substitutes to Genuine Toyota WS ATF may result in shift concerns and damage to the internal transmission components.
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I said as much in another thread on the subject. An automatic transmission that isn't a) neutral dropped or b) used to tow a huge load should last longer than nearly every other component of the car.
My old Tahoe had 200,000+ miles on it when I did the transmission, power steering, diffs and transfer case. I only owned it for 8 months and it had 202K on it when I got it. None of the fluids but engine oil had ever been changed and the guy towed a bass boat for 150K of those miles. Nothing was horrible but I needed to know it was reliable. I'd have kept it but I was on the cusp of spending more than it was worth for headers, posis front and rear and a cam. It's a sickness easily cured with money.
Originally Posted by 2GR
Great question, and I agree with you about the fluid. I've been looking for a Toyota/Lexus shop that will do just a drain/fill, but they all prefer their flushing machines.
The reason why you need to watch the temp, is because the fluid expands slightly when it gets hot. I watched an Infiniti Tech do a drain/fill on a 7spd and there was only one plug for draining and filling. The majority of the service was spent watching the temps get in range. Usually you are able to only get 4qts out.
That is NUTS! Why can't they just use a dip stick like we have used for the last 80 years of automatic transmission existence? Seriously, 113°F? This is unnecessarily complicated for the shear purpose of generating service dollars. I have the same feelings about this as I do for the cartridge oil filter nonsense. Needless complication that does not increase reliability and deters the DIY guy from doing his own service.
Transmission fluild, flush and forget or change filter too?
My GS just hit the 60k mark and I'm starting to look at some maintenance that needs to be done. I'm primarily looking at transmission fluid and Lexus want's $420 to change the transmission fluid. Another shop wants 99, they said they will just use a machine to flush out the old stuff and fill it back up. They also said to not mess with the filter as that can mess things up.
04-24-18, 02:16 PM
