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I remember seeing a huge thread on this not too long ago and it was made pretty clear that Eco mode DOES NOT make the suspension softer. The only thing that changes the adaptive variable suspension is the S+ mode. All other drive modes have the normal suspension setting. I'll see if I can find the thread.
I remember seeing a huge thread on this not too long ago and it was made pretty clear that Eco mode DOES NOT make the suspension softer..
I'm happy to be proven wrong, it could be a placebo effect. That said, I know some of the RC coupes do go softer on eco. To be 100% sure, one could check the signal to the dampers themselves.
I remember seeing a huge thread on this not too long ago and it was made pretty clear that Eco mode DOES NOT make the suspension softer. The only thing that changes the adaptive variable suspension is the S+ mode. All other drive modes have the normal suspension setting. I'll see if I can find the thread.
The suspension changes in all modes. There's a very old chart that floats around here that says what you mentioned about the changes only occurring in Sport S+ mode. This is incorrect and is not how the vehicles actually perform in real life.
Originally Posted by Cwang
I'm happy to be proven wrong, it could be a placebo effect. That said, I know some of the RC coupes do go softer on eco. To be 100% sure, one could check the signal to the dampers themselves.
The suspension changes in all modes. There's a very old chart that floats around here that says what you mentioned about the changes only occurring in Sport S+ mode. This is incorrect and is not how the vehicles actually perform in real life.
You're right, it does get softer in Eco mode.
I get that a lot of people think that (including you, obviously) but I have never seen actual proof of it, just people's opinions. On the other hand, I have seen proof via multiple manuals, technical documents, etc. that all pretty clearly indicate that there is no change to the AVS in eco mode compared to Normal/Sport mode. Only in Sport+ mode does the AVS tighten up. Like the poster above said, I'd be happy to be proven wrong, I just haven't yet.
Do you have any evidence/proof that the suspension softens up in eco mode?
Here is a small blurb from my manual on AVS. No mention of changes in eco mode, only S+.
Also, when configuring the "Custom" drive mode, there are only two settings for AVS (Chassis control): "Normal" and "Sport"
If there were some kind of 3rd setting for "softer than normal" it would be here.
Please share where you're getting your info from -- I'd love to get this issue settled, as I've seen in many places on these forums where people think the suspension softens up in eco mode, but I genuinely don't believe it does.
@wiltony The window sticker on the AWD F-Sport models says they're equipped with Variable Gear Ratio Steering. They're not. Only the RWD F-Sport models are. The Lexus website says the standard GS and AWD F-Sport models come with two-piston front brake calipers and only the RWD F-Sport models get 4-piston front calipers. This is wrong. All GS 350 models get 4-piston front brake calipers. There are many other examples of Lexus' literature being incorrect.
In science, there's this thing called the scientific method. Part of this includes forming a hypothesis and then testing it out in real life to see what the results are. Sometimes your results match up with your expectations, sometimes they don't. Regardless, you analyze that data and form conclusions based on those results.
I've read the manual. I've seen the charts. I know what they say the vehicle and the drive modes are supposed to do. But then I actually went out and drove our 2015 GS and our 2018 GS (many times each over the last 6 years for the '15, 3 years for the '18), tested out the different drive modes over various scenarios and road conditions and observedhow the vehicle actually behaved and responded in each drive mode, and then formed my conclusion based on those results. That's where I get my info from, and it sounds like that's where many other GS owners get their info from as they agree that it does soften up in Eco mode, despite all else saying otherwise.
If you choose to only believe information that is fed to you rather than forming your own conclusions and opinions based on your own real world tests and experiments, I can't help you there, but you're more than welcome to.
@wiltony The window sticker on the AWD F-Sport models says they're equipped with Variable Gear Ratio Steering. They're not. Only the RWD F-Sport models are. The Lexus website says the standard GS and AWD F-Sport models come with two-piston front brake calipers and only the RWD F-Sport models get 4-piston front calipers. This is wrong. All GS 350 models get 4-piston front brake calipers. There are many other examples of Lexus' literature being incorrect.
In science, there's this thing called the scientific method. Part of this includes forming a hypothesis and then testing it out in real life to see what the results are. Sometimes your results match up with your expectations, sometimes they don't. Regardless, you analyze that data and form conclusions based on those results.
I've read the manual. I've seen the charts. I know what they say the vehicle and the drive modes are supposed to do. But then I actually went out and drove our 2015 GS and our 2018 GS (many times each over the last 6 years for the '15, 3 years for the '18), tested out the different drive modes over various scenarios and road conditions and observedhow the vehicle actually behaved and responded in each drive mode, and then formed my conclusion based on those results. That's where I get my info from, and it sounds like that's where many other GS owners get their info from as they agree that it does soften up in Eco mode, despite all else saying otherwise.
If you choose to only believe information that is fed to you rather than forming your own conclusions and opinions based on your own real world tests and experiments, I can't help you there, but you're more than welcome to.
Hey man, no need to get all hostile and condescending because someone disagrees with you. I wasn't being accusatory or incensing, no need for you to raise the temperature on this thing. We both love these cars, so we're brothers in that sense.
I completely understand that you believe you get a softer ride in eco mode based on your experience, but please consider that you may be wrong, and that it could be just your own subjective experience and may not indeed be fact from an actual mechanical perspective. What I'm looking for is some literature, lab test results, or any kind of objective and empirical evidence that the car behaves in this way that is contradictory to how Lexus says it behaves.
I can recognize that I might be wrong and that it might be the case that the car provides a softer suspension in eco mode -- but in my experience, in my car, it doesn't, and all real evidence and literature I've seen so far backs that up. That's why I was asking for your evidence to the contrary, to help try to figure this mystery out.
@wiltony The window sticker on the AWD F-Sport models says they're equipped with Variable Gear Ratio Steering. They're not. Only the RWD F-Sport models are.
Could you be mixing this up with the dynamic rear steering? You're right in that only the RWD has that, but I believe all the F-Sport models have the VGRS, which just affects the ratio of how much you have to turn the steering wheel compared to how much the front wheels actually turn. This ratio also adjusts when engaging Sport S+ mode, I believe. I've also felt this occur in my AWD, in my experience.
Hey man, no need to get all hostile and condescending because someone disagrees with you. I wasn't being accusatory or incensing, no need for you to raise the temperature on this thing. We both love these cars, so we're brothers in that sense.
I completely understand that you believe you get a softer ride in eco mode based on your experience, but please consider that you may be wrong, and that it could be just your own subjective experience and may not indeed be fact from an actual mechanical perspective. What I'm looking for is some literature, lab test results, or any kind of objective and empirical evidence that the car behaves in this way that is contradictory to how Lexus says it behaves.
I can recognize that I might be wrong and that it might be the case that the car provides a softer suspension in eco mode -- but in my experience, in my car, it doesn't, and all real evidence and literature I've seen so far backs that up. That's why I was asking for your evidence to the contrary, to help try to figure this mystery out.
Take care!
Wiltony
Sorry, you're right. I hadn't had lunch yet and this topic is a little triggering for me due to a past member who I'd constantly argue with over this topic. He'd repeatedly use the same blurbs from the manual, charts, etc. as his main argument... meanwhile his GS was a base or premium and didn't even have the Adaptive Variable Suspension to begin with, so it always felt like I was beating a dead horse. At the time, I hadn't seen any other members noticing the softer feel in Eco mode, so it was extra frustrating because I felt like I was alone in something that was very noticeable to me. I've even asked passengers in my GS for their thoughts and they all felt a very obvious change switching from Eco to Normal and back. It was nice to finally have other members finally notice the same thing I'd been preaching about, only to be met with those damn screenshots again, lolol.
I'm not sure what GS you have but in my experience, the difference between the drive modes is pretty noticeable in the 16+ facelift models, but much more subtle of a difference in the 15 and older pre-facelift models. I acknowledge I could be completely off-base, but I don't believe I am. Your experience is your experience, I respect that and I can't invalidate that.
Originally Posted by wiltony
Could you be mixing this up with the dynamic rear steering? You're right in that only the RWD has that, but I believe all the F-Sport models have the VGRS, which just affects the ratio of how much you have to turn the steering wheel compared to how much the front wheels actually turn. This ratio also adjusts when engaging Sport S+ mode, I believe. I've also felt this occur in my AWD, in my experience.
Again, this could be another case of Lexus' website being incorrect, so I don't know as I haven't driven an AWD GS F-Sport. All I know is per Lexus, the RWD GS F-Sport has Variable Gear Ratio Steering and can adjust the number of turns lock-to-lock from 2.3-2.7 turns whereas the AWD GS F-Sport has a fixed steering ratio that is 2.8 turns lock-to-lock at all times. The only steering changes that the drive modes make in the AWD cars is in steering weight, not response. Maybe other members with AWD GS F-Sports can chime in on whether or not they feel the steering response changing in addition to the weighting.
Screenshots from Lexus' site (RWD screenshot is first, AWD screenshot is second):
Tons of respect for you and your reply. I appreciate your take on it. I have a 2016 AWD F-Sport. And for the record, I want it to be softer ride in eco mode and I will be working hard to see if I can detect whether my car is indeed doing it! As for the VGRS, I guess based on what you posted, it indeed must be absent for the AWD -- that is super weird. I get why they can't do the Rear dynamic steering but I don't understand how the AWD affected their ability to include VGRS. Now I'm gonna have to do some testing and see if my lock-to-lock indeed doesn't change between drive modes and it's all been in my head!
The VGRS topic is an interesting one. And while I think the AWD models don't have VGRS, I am not completely convinced and am looking for a way to validate that. Let me explain.
On my 15 GS350 F Sport AWD, the window sticker did NOT state that the car had VGRS, which was in line with the Lexus publications of the time. I had no reason to think it had VGRS, and I don't believe that it did.
But I wonder if they didn't sneak it in at the refresh, with (yet another) lost opportunity to market it appropriately. We all know that they made several changes in the refresh that were never broadcasted.
The window sticker on my 19 GS350 F Sport AWD states that the car DOES has VGRS, and I can tell you that the steering feels vastly different than the steering on my 15. Further adding to my suspicion is that I found a populated fuse for VGRS in my engine bay. Since I don't have my 15 anymore, I can't go and see if it also had the fuse, which could simply be installed on all of them for simplicity in manufacturing. I am inclined to say that they made steering feel adjustments and that they did not add VGRS to AWD models, but it would be good to verify it. I'm just not sure how to.
So this one is kind of unresolved for me. It's very easy to find discrepancies in Lexus' published materials so it's very hard to get a definitive answer.
The VGRS topic is an interesting one. And while I think the AWD models don't have VGRS, I am not completely convinced and am looking for a way to validate that. Let me explain.
On my 15 GS350 F Sport AWD, the window sticker did NOT state that the car had VGRS, which was in line with the Lexus publications of the time. I had no reason to think it had VGRS, and I don't believe that it did.
But I wonder if they didn't sneak it in at the refresh, with (yet another) lost opportunity to market it appropriately. We all know that they made several changes in the refresh that were never broadcasted.
The window sticker on my 19 GS350 F Sport AWD states that the car DOES has VGRS, and I can tell you that the steering feels vastly different than the steering on my 15. Further adding to my suspicion is that I found a populated fuse for VGRS in my engine bay. Since I don't have my 15 anymore, I can't go and see if it also had the fuse, which could simply be installed on all of them for simplicity in manufacturing. I am inclined to say that they made steering feel adjustments and that they did not add VGRS to AWD models, but it would be good to verify it. I'm just not sure how to.
So this one is kind of unresolved for me. It's very easy to find discrepancies in Lexus' published materials so it's very hard to get a definitive answer.
I guess this one can't be resolved by just measuring my lock-to-lock while stationary, then changing drive modes, and doing it again? Or does the ratio only change at higher speeds? I guess if that's the case, I could find a big parking lot and play around....
I guess this one can't be resolved by just measuring my lock-to-lock while stationary, then changing drive modes, and doing it again? Or does the ratio only change at higher speeds? I guess if that's the case, I could find a big parking lot and play around....
I really don't know. Could be fun to try!
If only they had slipped in rear steering on AWD models too! Not sure why we can't get that on the AWD models. I definitely would have sprung for it.
08-25-20, 11:42 AM
