jjscsix

Okay, I'm a reasonable guy. Maybe in my old age I've lost my mind. So I just now went out in the car and performed a repeatable experiment. I put the car in Sport mode and held the speed steady long enough to be sure it had achieved a steady state and was done shifting on its own. At exactly 47 mph I floored the accelerator. I then repeated the exact same experiment in Sport + mode. There was zero doubt that it downshifted to a lower gear in Sport +. Then I repeated both parts of the experiment but this time I actually watched the tachometer to visually assure that I was right about it downshifting to a lower gear. Sure enough, the tach immediately jumped much higher in Sport + mode confirming what I knew I felt - it definitely downshifts to a lower gear from the exact same speed in Sport + mode. Four times from exactly 47 mph and the results repeated themselves.

BTW, I also just read my owners manual. Nothing says it's different in the two modes, but nothing says its the same either. It simply says that in Sport mode it effects the transmission and in Sport + it controls the suspension and steering along with the transmission. But it does not say the transmission shifts the same in both modes.

rijc99

WOT is WOT. Eco, Normal or Sport. Even if you were in Eco, when you WOT it would still take off like a jack rabbit, assuming you hit the kick down switch.

These modes do not enhance acceleration at WOT. Thats why there is one published 0-60 number rather than 3 or 4. What they do is adjust the input so lets say you move the pedal 25%... in eco it would may translates to a 10% throttle opening where as in sport it translates to 50% but at partial throttle conditions. In WOT, it immediately shifts modes to give you the most power available. So WOT is not the best way to test.

Again, everything you are describing is contrary to published literature and tech publications.


From the Lexus press room:

"The GS 350 really comes alive in SPORT S mode, with throttle mapping delivering sharper response and transmission shifting priorities altered to hold gears longer under acceleration. Appropriately, instrument meter lighting changes to red in this mode.

With the F SPORT and Luxury packages, the GS 350 gains a fourth driving mode, SPORT S+. The “plus” widens system engagement to also include a sport setting for the Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS), electric power steering system and Vehicle Dynamic Integrated Management (VDIM). It all adds up to the most engaging GS driving experience ever, while maintaining the renowned Lexus smoothness and comfort."


Trust me, if there were additional throttle and transmission response changes in Sport S+ they would advertise that as it would be a great selling point. But no, they were very specific to use the words "TO ALSO INCLUDE."

bclexus

At 47 mph when you went WOT the transmission will always engage 2nd gear regardless of which drive mode you are in. In a 6-speed GS 350 47 mph in 2nd gear turns the engine at 4,440 RPM, which is ~2,000 RPMs below redline and far enough below [redline] to always engage 2nd gear at WOT.

bclexus

Totally agree...

jjscsix

Really, you guys think I'm making this up? Come to Houston and bring lots of money because you'll lose it.

jjscsix

Read my post again. Your response totally ignores what I said.

rijc99

Not saying you're making it up. As I believe you do "perceive" the difference. But I am citing tech data and publications from Lexus who manufactured the car.

You may have a one off GS. Who knows. But all I know is the manufacturer of the car says you're wrong.

And since it does not appear there is any way to convince you otherwise. Especially since I've provided all the evidence from the manufacturer I guess I'm done.

Congrats on your one off specially tuned GS350.

bclexus

I read it, and I believe I understood what you were trying to convey.

If the engine and transmission temperature parameters are the same (so there are no anomalies) it should not make any difference which drive mode you are in when you go WOT from that same set speed - it should drop to the same lower gear.

jjscsix

Do either one of your cars have the sme driving modes as mine? One of you says you have a premium which does not. The other of you does not say in your sig or profile what you have. I DO have one, I went out and drove the car and repeated a scientific test not once but twice. The car was fully warmed up as my wife had just driven it eleven miles home from work.

But ya'll think that I must be really stupid and am incapable of knowing what my car is doing. I road raced motorcycles 30 plus years ago and in my first full year (at 28 years old) I finished in the top three in the country in three different classes in the AMA national Amateur point standings. At 48 years old I drag raced for the first time. After only going to the strip literally a handful of times I still have the fifth fastest pass in a stock LS2 Corvette in the country per a very comprehensive list on the Corvette forum (manual transmission car BTW). I'm also in the top ten in a LS3 Corvette. Never took my Z06 to the track Look at my Avatar. I have three bikes that run the Quarter mile in the 9s or 10s.

My point is that I'm not some forum nerd. I actually drive my vehicles hard. I know what they are doing. I'm very capable of telling that the car is shifting differently in the two modes and I went out of my way to take the car out tonight and make sure I was right. If I was going to make ***** up I would not have wasted my time by taking the car out and making sure I wasn't nuts. It did what it did. You can quote Lexus all day long, but I know what the car does. Telling me what ya'll are telling me is calling me a liar. It's not a perception when I can feel the difference in it downshifting and I'm watching the tach when it downshifts.

jjscsix

My Audi and the BMW also downshifted differently when in sport mode. I don't know where you are getting your information that the cars will all downshift the same in any mode at WOT, but it's just not true.

bclexus

What do you mean when you use the the word cars, which is plural - as-in more than one car? I am not comparing anything with another brand car. I hope you do not think I have been. I was only discussing one car - the Lexus GS 350, which I assume yours is a 2014 RWD model. I'm not sure if it has a 6-Speed transmission or a 8-Speed transmission. The RPM at 47 mph in 2nd gear I provided (in Post #48) was for a 6-Speed transmission. An 8-Speed transmission at that same 47 mph speed might select 2nd gear at 4,800 RPM, or it might select 3rd gear. This could very well be where you are getting mixed results IF you have a 8-Speed transmission! If the transmission selected 2nd gear at 4,800 RPM (with a 8-Speed transmission), that RPM would be rather high and very close to the 5,252 RPM of peak engine performance. That said, since 47 mph with a 8-Speed transmission is probably near the threshold where a downshift may be right on the borderline of selecting 2nd gear or selecting 3rd gear at WOT the car could very-well select 2nd gear one time and select 3rd gear another time, which of course would be a bit confusing unless you understood why that was happening - caused by the engine speed RPM being pretty high and right near the borderline of which gear it automatically selects when downshifting at WOT. But, this has no bearing at all on Sport mode versus Sport+ mode in terms of transmission shifting characteristics.

rijc99

For clarification purposes and since someone asked...

I have a 2014 FSport RWD with 8 speed transmission.

bclexus

I believe jjscsix has a 2014 Luxury with 8-Speed transmission.

As I tried to explain in my previous post; at 47 mph an 8-Speed transmission would automatically select either 2nd gear at 4,800 RPM or 3rd gear at 3,300 RPM. I would surmise that 4,800 RPM (for 2nd gear) may be right at a tipping threshold point of which gear the transmission would automatically select (2nd gear versus 3rd gear). Additionally, if the speed was say [only] 46 mph for one test run it may select 2nd gear whereas if the next test run was a bit higher at say 47.5 mph then the transmission may select 3rd gear. I believe this is likely what happened to cause the different results - it was just too close where the transmission could automatically select either 2nd gear or 3rd gear to always get the same results...regardless of which drive mode was used.

jjscsix

Guys, ya'll are nit picking petty crap to Make your case. Before the test I did today I knew the transmission was far more responsive in the plus mode. That is based upon a few thousand miles in the car. Tonight I weant out of my way to make sure I did a back to back controlled test to make sure it really was not a perception. I could have stubbornly stuck to my guns without doing that, but that's not who I am. I got in the car and went out and drove it. It shifted differently in the two modes.

Just to confirm what I did, I alternated back and forth between the modes. I did not run it twice in one mode then twice in the other. I went back and forth. Meanwhile, instead of the two of you going out and testing your cars like I did, ya'll are bench racing based upon your interpretation of Lexus marketing hyperboly. I have nothing more to prove. I know the truth while ya'll are guessing at the truth. It's been fun. Time to bow out of this one.

bclexus

Thanks for playing!