Very Disappointed
#61
Lexus Test Driver
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I do not like being misled, tricked, deceived, defrauded, duped, hoodwinked, swindled, flim-flamed or victimized. If I know about the 'issue' ahead of time, then I can make a decision on whether I can resolve the issue and live with the results. BUT, if I am not told about the 'issue' ahead of time when it is known, then I WILL have a problem with it.
Just like there are certain things that must be disclosed when selling real estate, different states require that repairs to new vehicles above a certain amount must be disclosed. When buying a new home it is common practice to have it inspected by a licensed impartial professional inspector. When buying a new vehicle it is always inspected by the authorized dealer selling you the car - which is something consumers should be able to trust. When you visit an authorized Breitling watch dealer and buy a new $20,000 Breitling watch, you expect the watch to be in brand new, and in mint condition. You do not expect to learn after the purchase that the watch had its original stem cap or strap replaced. When I buy a new vehicle I expect the vehicle to be in mint condition. And if there happens to be anything done to the vehicle that prevents it from being in factory mint condition (like REPAINTING ANYTHING) I expect to be told about it beforehand so I can make a decision (with that knowledge in mind) before I agree to purchase the vehicle.
Just like there are certain things that must be disclosed when selling real estate, different states require that repairs to new vehicles above a certain amount must be disclosed. When buying a new home it is common practice to have it inspected by a licensed impartial professional inspector. When buying a new vehicle it is always inspected by the authorized dealer selling you the car - which is something consumers should be able to trust. When you visit an authorized Breitling watch dealer and buy a new $20,000 Breitling watch, you expect the watch to be in brand new, and in mint condition. You do not expect to learn after the purchase that the watch had its original stem cap or strap replaced. When I buy a new vehicle I expect the vehicle to be in mint condition. And if there happens to be anything done to the vehicle that prevents it from being in factory mint condition (like REPAINTING ANYTHING) I expect to be told about it beforehand so I can make a decision (with that knowledge in mind) before I agree to purchase the vehicle.
#62
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I do not like being misled, tricked, deceived, defrauded, duped, hoodwinked, swindled, flim-flamed or victimized. If I know about the 'issue' ahead of time, then I can make a decision on whether I can resolve the issue and live with the results. BUT, if I am not told about the 'issue' ahead of time when it is known, then I WILL have a problem with it.
People have a propensity to automatically assume people are out to trick them, and more times than not thats not the case.
Just like there are certain things that must be disclosed when selling real estate, different states require that repairs to new vehicles above a certain amount must be disclosed. When buying a new home it is common practice to have it inspected by a licensed impartial professional inspector.
When buying a new vehicle it is always inspected by the authorized dealer selling you the car - which is something consumers should be able to trust.
Its the consumers job to go over their vehicle before taking delivery of it. Thats what I do, and I found a damaged bumper before I took delivery. Many people may not have.
When I buy a new vehicle I expect the vehicle to be in mint condition. And if there happens to be anything done to the vehicle that prevents it from being in factory mint condition (like REPAINTING ANYTHING) I expect to be told about it beforehand so I can make a decision (with that knowledge in mind) before I agree to purchase the vehicle.
The world is what it is guys.
#63
Lexus Test Driver
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Neither do I, again though you are assuming that the dealer did any of those things. Like Joe Z posted, it could have happened at transit before the car ever made it to the dealer. When I pointed out the damage to my bumper, you could tell by the look on everybody's faces, they didn't know.
People have a propensity to automatically assume people are out to trick them, and more times than not thats not the case.
Now we're talking about what I do for a living. This is a fundamental flaw in your logic. If the seller of a home you were buying chose to inspect it themselves and say "hey, its all good!" would you accept that? Not unless you're crazy. The pre delivery inspection that a dealer does when they take a car in is VERY cursory, its done by lot porters who may not even speak english, its not a "impartial inspection". Two entirely different situations.
Its the consumers job to go over their vehicle before taking delivery of it. Thats what I do, and I found a damaged bumper before I took delivery. Many people may not have.
Then you should always pay for an impartial inspection of every vehicle you purchase, especially if you aren't willing to closely examine it yourself and you're going to rely on the dealer to look for problems for themselves. Those inspectors exist.
The world is what it is guys.
People have a propensity to automatically assume people are out to trick them, and more times than not thats not the case.
Now we're talking about what I do for a living. This is a fundamental flaw in your logic. If the seller of a home you were buying chose to inspect it themselves and say "hey, its all good!" would you accept that? Not unless you're crazy. The pre delivery inspection that a dealer does when they take a car in is VERY cursory, its done by lot porters who may not even speak english, its not a "impartial inspection". Two entirely different situations.
Its the consumers job to go over their vehicle before taking delivery of it. Thats what I do, and I found a damaged bumper before I took delivery. Many people may not have.
Then you should always pay for an impartial inspection of every vehicle you purchase, especially if you aren't willing to closely examine it yourself and you're going to rely on the dealer to look for problems for themselves. Those inspectors exist.
The world is what it is guys.
That repainted bumper did not mysteriously get taken to the body shop, taped-up, sanded-down and repainted without someone at one of the two dealerships knowing full-well it was being done. (And I don't care which dealership did it.) That REPAIR is something I firmly believe should have been disclosed to any potential buyer of this vehicle before purchase.
#64
Lexus Test Driver
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
That's ridiculous to think one should have to do that when purchasing a brand vehicle from the authorized dealer.
#65
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Steve - The 'flaw' in your rebuttal is this - if the OP's bumper on his brand new car was ALREADY repainted, then somebody at one of the dealerships had to know. That is far different from a brand new car having a scratch or ding that no one had noticed yet, but was discovered later.
Originally Posted by Joe Z
Cars get damaged during transport more than you think....
The repair could have been done even during port transit, prior to dealership taking possession..
Dealership may have not even known it was fixed
The repair could have been done even during port transit, prior to dealership taking possession..
Dealership may have not even known it was fixed
Originally Posted by Joe Z
Just making sure you all realize that both dealerships may have no clue if the bumper was resprayed...
That REPAIR is something I firmly believe should have been disclosed to any potential buyer of this vehicle before purchase.
That's ridiculous to think one should have to do that when purchasing a brand vehicle from the authorized dealer.
#66
Lexus Test Driver
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I agree that its most likely the dealership did know, but you did not read what Joe Z posted:
He even requoted it later and added:
As said above, they very well may not have known, and as you said, KY law states they only have to disclose damage over $1,000. A business or dealership is not going to do "what you think is right" they're going to do what they are required to do by law. If they don't have to disclose it, they're not going to disclose it.
He even requoted it later and added:
As said above, they very well may not have known, and as you said, KY law states they only have to disclose damage over $1,000. A business or dealership is not going to do "what you think is right" they're going to do what they are required to do by law. If they don't have to disclose it, they're not going to disclose it.
I am the one who provided the information about the Kentucky statute pertaining to disclosure. That is the minimum standards. That does not mean that Lexus standards are minimum. I'd like to think Lexus is a few notches above the minimum. And, I suspect the Kentucky Lexus dealership would probably think their standards are above the minimum also.
#67
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I am the one who provided the information about the Kentucky statute pertaining to disclosure. That is the minimum standards. That does not mean that Lexus standards are minimum. I'd like to think Lexus is a few notches above the minimum. And, I suspect the Kentucky Lexus dealership would probably think their standards are above the minimum also.
I've been a Lexus owner for 17 years. I have completed the purchase of 6 different Lexus vehicles in that time. I have used several dealerships, I have had good service and bad service, but in the rare occasions trouble has happened and I have needed a dealer to really step up...they have always let me down by showing me that there are limits to what they will do to please a customer, and a lot of times those limits are really low.
#68
Driver
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I work at the Toyota plant in Kentucky where they're getting ready to build the ES this fall. On every single ES that had been built during trials shipping line as put plastic on the front bumper. I can say with out a doubt that if Lexus is going to do that on a vehicle that is built in the US and is US bound than I bet that there is even more protection put on the ones coming from Japan. I'm not ruling out the fact that it may have been damaged during the logistical period of transport, but it's unlikely. I see how they treat the Camrys that we are shipping to the middle east. Lexus is only going to take more steps to insure a damage free transport. And even on the of chance that there was damage there would be a paper trail. That car wouldn't just disappear for a couple of days with out anyone knowing or any paper trail.
#69
Lead Lap
iTrader: (1)
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
![Thumb Up](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Honestly SW15LS your posts are always more than helpful but on this particular thread you come off as rude, condescending and elitist, mixed with some trash about non-english speakers.... Why would you complain about me telling the OP to ask for a new car? Thats a pretty reasonable request after something you have purchased is actually broken. We don't all live in a perfect world where bumper paint jobs are immaculate and last beyond 10 years. We are all car enthusiasts and to us it sounds when you speak it sounds very similar to what a dealer will be ****ting down your throat when you complain that your 60 thousand dollar car has a damaged bumper. Unlike the bull**** you lapped up when they gave you their "oh my god lets act shocked that we didnt know about a magically fixed bumper. You bent over for that dealer and took it like a champ considering you just agreed to plunk down 80+K. Yea good luck with your free oil changes. Sorry if you misinterpret that as whining, but one things for sure, you and me sir are cut from a different cloth.
MEAHT
Last edited by MEAHT; 06-27-15 at 01:00 PM.
#70
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
No matter what steps one takes, there will ALWAYS be damage at transport. Loading all those cars onto and off of trucks, onto and off of ships, onto and off of trains, moving them around dealer lots. I see cars parked up against each other on dealer lots all the time.
Originally Posted by MEAHT
Why would you complain about me telling the OP to ask for a new car? Thats a pretty reasonable request after something you have purchased is actually broken.
You have any idea what cars and service would cost if that was the kind of liability they'd be looking at if they scratch a car? Good night.
You bent over for that dealer and took it like a champ considering you just agreed to plunk down 80+K. Yea good luck with your free oil changes. Sorry if you misinterpret that as whining, but one things for sure, you and me sir are cut from a different cloth.
Some people get so worked up on the "principle" of the thing they wind up shooting themselves in the foot.
Last edited by SW17LS; 06-27-15 at 01:19 PM.
#71
Lexus Test Driver
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I
Maybe so, but if you 100% absolutely want to be sure that the car you are buying has never had a part replaced or any damage repaired as you stated, the onus for discovery is on you as the buyer. You provided the law in that particular state (some states have no $1,000 limit FYI), your expectations is that ANY damage should be disclosed to you, that is a greater that the requirements placed on the dealer by law...and greater than what you can fairly expect due to that. Its your responsibility to discover something deeper than what the seller is required to disclose by law.
Maybe so, but if you 100% absolutely want to be sure that the car you are buying has never had a part replaced or any damage repaired as you stated, the onus for discovery is on you as the buyer. You provided the law in that particular state (some states have no $1,000 limit FYI), your expectations is that ANY damage should be disclosed to you, that is a greater that the requirements placed on the dealer by law...and greater than what you can fairly expect due to that. Its your responsibility to discover something deeper than what the seller is required to disclose by law.
#72
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The burden to discover 'already' repaired/repainted body work should not be on the buyer of a brand new car. Again, that is totally ridiculous! Can you imagine a sign hanging on Lexus' new car showroom doors that says; 'Buyers of our new Lexus vehicles have the burden of discovering any damage we withhold from telling you about.' And, I'm not talking about minor little pencil paint touch-ups and the like... But when something as large as a bumper is repainted - that is a significant and sizable piece of the vehicle's body. I firmly believe this should have been disclosed.
Wishing and wanting something to be a certain way does not make it so. Nobody you do business with really gives a crap about you in the end, you have to look out for yourself. When something goes wrong, if you press for and accept a reasonable solution (i.e. not "loose $10,000 by giving me a new car because of this minor damage") you will get way farther than if you rant and rave and make unreasonable demands. If you go in yelling "I want a new car, I'm going to talk to my lawyer" you know what their response will be? Good luck. Their lawyers are on retainer.
and further, if this repair was made by the buyer - it would indeed cost more than $1,000.
But, I can assure you that there are many people that would take any course necessary to get what they thought they were originally purchasing...which is a mint brand new car.
Last edited by SW17LS; 06-27-15 at 01:13 PM.
#73
Lexus Test Driver
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Steve - Would you expect to be told that the front bumper of this brand new $346,775 McLaren 650S Spider at my local McLaren dealership had been repainted before you purchased it? Yes, No....Maybe so!
Last edited by bclexus; 06-27-15 at 01:14 PM.
#74
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
No. The law is the law, it doesn't matter what the car costs. I would thoroughly inspect the car before taking deliver, as I always do, and if everything looks fine...I'd take delivery. If I found out after the fact that the bumper was a repaint, but it looks perfect as it did before I bought it...I wouldn't care. You said it yourself, they don't have to disclose repairs to a new car under $1,000.
Thats the honest truth.
The OP's repaint was done poorly. Can't be that poorly, he didn't notice it for 2 weeks. The dealer is going to completely replace the bumper and repaint it, and give him a clearbra for his trouble. What more can they do? "Should they have disclosed it?!" even if they should have...they didn't...its done. Should the OP hire an attorney and fight for months or just accept the bumper and move on?
Thats the honest truth.
The OP's repaint was done poorly. Can't be that poorly, he didn't notice it for 2 weeks. The dealer is going to completely replace the bumper and repaint it, and give him a clearbra for his trouble. What more can they do? "Should they have disclosed it?!" even if they should have...they didn't...its done. Should the OP hire an attorney and fight for months or just accept the bumper and move on?
Last edited by SW17LS; 06-27-15 at 01:25 PM.
#75
Lexus Test Driver
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
No. The law is the law, it doesn't matter what the car costs. I would thoroughly inspect the car before taking deliver, as I always do, and if everything looks fine...I'd take delivery. If I found out after the fact that the bumper was a repaint, but it looks perfect as it did before I bought it...I wouldn't care.
Thats the honest truth.
Thats the honest truth.
Your comment that 'the law is the law' makes me laugh. The law is not as easy as being defined as a sure thing. Interpretation of a law is the central aspect of law.