Fail?
12-18-15, 05:25 AM
#61
Not the whole spec sheet, just the performance section. Just look at the new RX. They show 0-60 in the high 7's, when all outside tests show much quicker.
12-18-15, 06:00 AM
#62
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Facts versus Feelings:
1. Lexus GS 200T (base): 241 HP, 258 lb-ft torque, 22/33/26 mpg, 3805 lbs curb weight, 0-60 7.0 secs, $45,615 (base price)
2. BMW 528i (base): 240 HP, 260 lb-ft torque, 23/34/27, 3814 lbs curb weight, 0-60 6.1 secs, $50,200 (base price)
The BMW 528i costs $4585 more than the GS200T. The BMW will use up $1400 per year in premium gas, while the GS200T will use up $1450 per year in premium gas, according to this https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find...37147&id=36742
That's a difference of $50 per year in the BMW's favor. But since the BMW is $4585 more expensive than the GS200T, it will take the Bimmer 91 years before its advantage in fuel economy will catch up to the Lexus' advantage in lower base price.
The BMW 528i claims a 0-60 of 6.1 secs, which is a 0.9 sec advantage over the GS200T. Both cars were not actually tested side by side using the same techniques under the same conditions by the same technicians. Brandon Turkus of Autoblog states in his article that the BMW is a second faster, so it looks like he merely accepted these published claims and didn't actually do the testing himself. Frankly, the feeling that one car is faster than another without doing actual testing is more of a placebo effect than anything else. But let's accept BMW's and Lexus' published claims as fact. For that 0.9 sec advantage, you have to pay $5094 ($4585/0.9) to BMW.
If you think this 0.9 sec advantage is important enough to you that it will make a material difference in your real-life driving needs in the bumper-to-bumper traffic of LA, Chicago, NY etc, please feel free to pay up. But for most drivers in this segment who are looking for base models and not track cars or supercars, there's a 99% chance this 0.9 sec difference is going to be irrelevant. Otherwise, they would have picked the track cars and supercars to start with.
What the GS200T offers that the BMW528i does not is higher resale value and higher predicted reliability, along with luxury sports sedan aesthetics and dynamics at a price that people can live with. If you go with fact-based analysis by KBB and Consumer Reports, there is no reason to doubt this result. If you go with feeling-based anecdotal analysis by auto journalists like Brandon Turkus of Autoblog, the BMW will win...because - you know - BMW.
1. Lexus GS 200T (base): 241 HP, 258 lb-ft torque, 22/33/26 mpg, 3805 lbs curb weight, 0-60 7.0 secs, $45,615 (base price)
2. BMW 528i (base): 240 HP, 260 lb-ft torque, 23/34/27, 3814 lbs curb weight, 0-60 6.1 secs, $50,200 (base price)
The BMW 528i costs $4585 more than the GS200T. The BMW will use up $1400 per year in premium gas, while the GS200T will use up $1450 per year in premium gas, according to this https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find...37147&id=36742
That's a difference of $50 per year in the BMW's favor. But since the BMW is $4585 more expensive than the GS200T, it will take the Bimmer 91 years before its advantage in fuel economy will catch up to the Lexus' advantage in lower base price.
The BMW 528i claims a 0-60 of 6.1 secs, which is a 0.9 sec advantage over the GS200T. Both cars were not actually tested side by side using the same techniques under the same conditions by the same technicians. Brandon Turkus of Autoblog states in his article that the BMW is a second faster, so it looks like he merely accepted these published claims and didn't actually do the testing himself. Frankly, the feeling that one car is faster than another without doing actual testing is more of a placebo effect than anything else. But let's accept BMW's and Lexus' published claims as fact. For that 0.9 sec advantage, you have to pay $5094 ($4585/0.9) to BMW.
If you think this 0.9 sec advantage is important enough to you that it will make a material difference in your real-life driving needs in the bumper-to-bumper traffic of LA, Chicago, NY etc, please feel free to pay up. But for most drivers in this segment who are looking for base models and not track cars or supercars, there's a 99% chance this 0.9 sec difference is going to be irrelevant. Otherwise, they would have picked the track cars and supercars to start with.
What the GS200T offers that the BMW528i does not is higher resale value and higher predicted reliability, along with luxury sports sedan aesthetics and dynamics at a price that people can live with. If you go with fact-based analysis by KBB and Consumer Reports, there is no reason to doubt this result. If you go with feeling-based anecdotal analysis by auto journalists like Brandon Turkus of Autoblog, the BMW will win...because - you know - BMW.
Last edited by gyrase321; 12-18-15 at 06:19 AM.
12-18-15, 06:01 AM
#63
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12-18-15, 06:28 AM
#64
Facts versus Feelings:
1. Lexus GS 200T (base): 241 HP, 258 lb-ft torque, 22/33/26 mpg, 3805 lbs curb weight, 0-60 7.0 secs, $45,615 (base price)
2. BMW 528i (base): 240 HP, 260 lb-ft torque, 23/34/27, 3814 lbs curb weight, 0-60 6.1 secs, $50,200 (base price)
The BMW 528i costs $4585 more than the GS200T. The BMW will use up $1400 per year in premium gas, while the GS200T will use up $1450 per year in premium gas, according to this https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find...37147&id=36742
That's a difference of $50 per year in the BMW's favor. But since the BMW is $4585 more expensive than the GS200T, it will take the Bimmer 91 years before its advantage in fuel economy will catch up to the Lexus' advantage in lower base price.
1. Lexus GS 200T (base): 241 HP, 258 lb-ft torque, 22/33/26 mpg, 3805 lbs curb weight, 0-60 7.0 secs, $45,615 (base price)
2. BMW 528i (base): 240 HP, 260 lb-ft torque, 23/34/27, 3814 lbs curb weight, 0-60 6.1 secs, $50,200 (base price)
The BMW 528i costs $4585 more than the GS200T. The BMW will use up $1400 per year in premium gas, while the GS200T will use up $1450 per year in premium gas, according to this https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find...37147&id=36742
That's a difference of $50 per year in the BMW's favor. But since the BMW is $4585 more expensive than the GS200T, it will take the Bimmer 91 years before its advantage in fuel economy will catch up to the Lexus' advantage in lower base price.
BMW offers free service, Lexus does not.
12-18-15, 06:28 AM
#65
Lexus Champion
12-18-15, 06:32 AM
#66
12-18-15, 06:35 AM
#67
Lexus Test Driver
Facts versus Feelings:
1. Lexus GS 200T (base): 241 HP, 258 lb-ft torque, 22/33/26 mpg, 3805 lbs curb weight, 0-60 7.0 secs, $45,615 (base price)
2. BMW 528i (base): 240 HP, 260 lb-ft torque, 23/34/27, 3814 lbs curb weight, 0-60 6.1 secs, $50,200 (base price)
The BMW 528i costs $4585 more than the GS200T. The BMW will use up $1400 per year in premium gas, while the GS200T will use up $1450 per year in premium gas, according to this https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find...37147&id=36742
That's a difference of $50 per year in the BMW's favor. But since the BMW is $4585 more expensive than the GS200T, it will take the Bimmer 91 years before its advantage in fuel economy will catch up to the Lexus' advantage in lower base price.
The BMW 528i claims a 0-60 of 6.1 secs, which is a 0.9 sec advantage over the GS200T. Both cars were not actually tested side by side using the same techniques under the same conditions by the same technicians. Brandon Turkus of Autoblog states in his article that the BMW is a second faster, so it looks like he merely accepted these published claims and didn't actually do the testing himself. Frankly, the feeling that one car is faster than another without doing actual testing is more of a placebo effect than anything else. But let's accept BMW's and Lexus' published claims as fact. For that 0.9 sec advantage, you have to pay $5094 ($4585/0.9) to BMW.
If you think this 0.9 sec advantage is important enough to you that it will make a material difference in your real-life driving needs in the bumper-to-bumper traffic of LA, Chicago, NY etc, please feel free to pay up. But for most drivers in this segment who are looking for base models and not track cars or supercars, there's a 99% chance this 0.9 sec difference is going to be irrelevant. Otherwise, they would have picked the track cars and supercars to start with.
What the GS200T offers that the BMW528i does not is higher resale value and higher predicted reliability, along with luxury sports sedan aesthetics and dynamics at a price that people can live with. If you go with fact-based analysis by KBB and Consumer Reports, there is no reason to doubt this result. If you go with feeling-based anecdotal analysis by auto journalists like Brandon Turkus of Autoblog, the BMW will win...because - you know - BMW.
1. Lexus GS 200T (base): 241 HP, 258 lb-ft torque, 22/33/26 mpg, 3805 lbs curb weight, 0-60 7.0 secs, $45,615 (base price)
2. BMW 528i (base): 240 HP, 260 lb-ft torque, 23/34/27, 3814 lbs curb weight, 0-60 6.1 secs, $50,200 (base price)
The BMW 528i costs $4585 more than the GS200T. The BMW will use up $1400 per year in premium gas, while the GS200T will use up $1450 per year in premium gas, according to this https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find...37147&id=36742
That's a difference of $50 per year in the BMW's favor. But since the BMW is $4585 more expensive than the GS200T, it will take the Bimmer 91 years before its advantage in fuel economy will catch up to the Lexus' advantage in lower base price.
The BMW 528i claims a 0-60 of 6.1 secs, which is a 0.9 sec advantage over the GS200T. Both cars were not actually tested side by side using the same techniques under the same conditions by the same technicians. Brandon Turkus of Autoblog states in his article that the BMW is a second faster, so it looks like he merely accepted these published claims and didn't actually do the testing himself. Frankly, the feeling that one car is faster than another without doing actual testing is more of a placebo effect than anything else. But let's accept BMW's and Lexus' published claims as fact. For that 0.9 sec advantage, you have to pay $5094 ($4585/0.9) to BMW.
If you think this 0.9 sec advantage is important enough to you that it will make a material difference in your real-life driving needs in the bumper-to-bumper traffic of LA, Chicago, NY etc, please feel free to pay up. But for most drivers in this segment who are looking for base models and not track cars or supercars, there's a 99% chance this 0.9 sec difference is going to be irrelevant. Otherwise, they would have picked the track cars and supercars to start with.
What the GS200T offers that the BMW528i does not is higher resale value and higher predicted reliability, along with luxury sports sedan aesthetics and dynamics at a price that people can live with. If you go with fact-based analysis by KBB and Consumer Reports, there is no reason to doubt this result. If you go with feeling-based anecdotal analysis by auto journalists like Brandon Turkus of Autoblog, the BMW will win...because - you know - BMW.
For regular folks its a much better car - more room, cheaper, faster, v6 etc.
For folks looking at a sport sedan - no real reason to go for 200t when GS350 is not much more.
Also the comparison to BMW is not fair - the current 2.0 turbo has been around since 2012 and i had it in my 528i - and its much better than the New one in the GS.
BMW is coming out with a new 2.0 turbo engine next year with even more power and efficiency.
Lexus needs to do some work......
12-18-15, 06:43 AM
#68
Instructor
I think having a entry level 200t Base model is a great idea. You still get a great suspension and driving dynamic. Good steering feel and better quality interior and bigger Navigation screen than an ES 350 minus the leather seating.
I can totally see people who like the looks and class of the GS but cannot afford one go for the 200t instead of stepping down and getting an ES 350.
Remember that people on this forum are enthusiasts and we like to drive our cars fast and take turns like a rollercoaster. But MOST people who buy the 200t may not be as spirited in driving like us enthusiasts. Those people who buy the 200t may never try full throttle mode. But us enthusiasts on the other hand knows better and avoid the 200t like the plague. But i think the 200t has its place.
If my daughter OR son gets old enough to drive one day I would definatly get him OR her a GS 200t or an IS 250 because its slow so it will prevent him/her from driving at an unsafe speed. You know teenagers! So this 200t model line has its place.
I can totally see people who like the looks and class of the GS but cannot afford one go for the 200t instead of stepping down and getting an ES 350.
Remember that people on this forum are enthusiasts and we like to drive our cars fast and take turns like a rollercoaster. But MOST people who buy the 200t may not be as spirited in driving like us enthusiasts. Those people who buy the 200t may never try full throttle mode. But us enthusiasts on the other hand knows better and avoid the 200t like the plague. But i think the 200t has its place.
If my daughter OR son gets old enough to drive one day I would definatly get him OR her a GS 200t or an IS 250 because its slow so it will prevent him/her from driving at an unsafe speed. You know teenagers! So this 200t model line has its place.
Last edited by AL13NV8D3R; 12-18-15 at 06:47 AM.
12-18-15, 06:48 AM
#69
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You cited CD as your source as if that is the ultimate authority. Do you believe everything you read on CD? CD is just one data point source that publishes the opinions of its writers.
12-18-15, 06:48 AM
#70
compare the difference
1) 11000 miles averaging 27.8 i will bet you a gs 350 the gs 200t will average about 24
2) the motor n20 in the bmw is an animal and will keep up with a gs350
3) the 8 speed in the bmw blows the lexus/toyotoa set up away
4) the gs will do better in the front offset crash test
5) at 70 mpg with cruise on i get 38 mpg wanna bet what the gs 200t gets probably 33
6) look of bmw vs gs night and day, with tint i think the 5 series is one of the best understated elegant designs in last ten years. the gs mis mosh of lines curves and a design from godzilla
7) reliability a gs win
8) handling my 5 good the gs 200 really good gs 350 great
9) cockpit interior of my 5 i really am starting to like more than than the gs
10) larger cockpit goes to gs more roomy
11) i drive and nav night and day blows the lexus away in function, sound, look and feel
12) bmw covered service and warranty till 50k probably worth 2500$
13) cpo 14 bmw 528 39 k out the door and new gs 45k u don't have to be phd and have a doctorate the lexus is outclassed.
1) 11000 miles averaging 27.8 i will bet you a gs 350 the gs 200t will average about 24
2) the motor n20 in the bmw is an animal and will keep up with a gs350
3) the 8 speed in the bmw blows the lexus/toyotoa set up away
4) the gs will do better in the front offset crash test
5) at 70 mpg with cruise on i get 38 mpg wanna bet what the gs 200t gets probably 33
6) look of bmw vs gs night and day, with tint i think the 5 series is one of the best understated elegant designs in last ten years. the gs mis mosh of lines curves and a design from godzilla
7) reliability a gs win
8) handling my 5 good the gs 200 really good gs 350 great
9) cockpit interior of my 5 i really am starting to like more than than the gs
10) larger cockpit goes to gs more roomy
11) i drive and nav night and day blows the lexus away in function, sound, look and feel
12) bmw covered service and warranty till 50k probably worth 2500$
13) cpo 14 bmw 528 39 k out the door and new gs 45k u don't have to be phd and have a doctorate the lexus is outclassed.
12-18-15, 07:33 AM
#73
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Here's another source MT. They reached 60 in 6.0 sec's. I guess I gave you too much credit, thinking you knew how to research. 
I'm betting the 200t, when tested by the mag's, will be in the mid 6's. At least I would hope so!
I'm betting the 200t, when tested by the mag's, will be in the mid 6's. At least I would hope so!
12-18-15, 09:33 AM
#74
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Also, this thread compares the current 2016 Gs200t to the 2016 bmw 528i (with respective prices taken into account), both cars being available now. It's not a comparison between a current Lexus versus a future Bmw.
12-18-15, 09:46 AM
#75
Lexus Test Driver
^
GS350 sells in miniscule #s as it is compared to 5 and Eclass.
Thats with $500 leases.
I doubt GS200 would do any better plus half the country is getting GS300awd.
Maybe if lease price is in $300-400s.
GS350 sells in miniscule #s as it is compared to 5 and Eclass.
Thats with $500 leases.
I doubt GS200 would do any better plus half the country is getting GS300awd.
Maybe if lease price is in $300-400s.