Eco vs Normal mode?
12-24-15, 02:52 PM
#16
Driver School Candidate
Since I kept my MBZ E350 Sport in ECO mode I got 29mpg but since having my Fsport for less than a month, ECO is a big let down. Getting around 22mpg. Today I drove from San Diego to my father's house in Santa Barbara (230 miles) and was elated when I saw 25.5mpg but only to be sad when , after nastey traffic, it dropped to 33.5mpg. Only time will tell if mpg improves. I barely have 700 miles on the ode.
Did you reverse your mpg. figures 25.5 and 33.5 mpg?
12-24-15, 08:46 PM
#17
08-15-20, 03:40 PM
#19
Racer
officially no, in actuality, yes lol. There’s a difference between each mode from eco - normal - sport s - sport s+
if your GS is RWD and you have VGRS, the steering ratio/behavior also changes between each drive mode
if your GS is RWD and you have VGRS, the steering ratio/behavior also changes between each drive mode
08-17-20, 03:49 AM
#20
Can you elaborate more on the suspension change in eco mode. Ive tried searching lots of threads on this forum and cant seem to find any reference other than sports + firms the suspension and normal brings them back to normal, so essentially there are 2 suspension settings?
08-17-20, 08:46 AM
#21
Racer
Can you elaborate more on the suspension change in eco mode. Ive tried searching lots of threads on this forum and cant seem to find any reference other than sports + firms the suspension and normal brings them back to normal, so essentially there are 2 suspension settings?
There have been times in the past where Lexus' official literature/documents/website state one thing about their vehicles that simply isn't true based on how the cars are/behave in real life. One of their claims is that the only changes that occur to the Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS) happen in Sport S+ mode (i.e. in this mode, the suspension dampening stiffens, the steering weight gets heavier, and the steering ratio gets quicker).
From my almost 3 years with my 2018 GS and now almost 6 years with our 2015 GS (which I also daily drove at one point), I've found that this isn't the case at all. I've found that changes occur in each and every drive mode.
Eco mode: Softest dampening, causes the floatiest ride sensation, a good bit softer than Normal mode. Variable Gear Ratio Steering (VGRS) seems to slow down the steering ratio also, resulting in what I think is the best mode for just cruising, especially on long freeway drives. In terms of steering, the GS feels most stable at higher speeds in this mode as even Normal mode has a quicker steering response which can cause it to feel a little bit darty at higher speeds. I've also found that brake pedal feel and response changes throughout the drive modes. In Eco mode, the pedal is softer/spongier and requires more pedal travel to stop the car. Overall, this is the most detached and isolated drive mode with the least amount of road feel. This suspension mode results in the least body control in terms of heave, sway, roll, pitch, and squat.
Normal mode: A noticeable amount firmer than Eco mode, definitely puts the ride quality in the "firm but still comfortable" category. Does a good job striking a balance between having some road feel while retaining comfort and isolation. Biggest difference between Eco and Normal mode is in the steering. The steering response is much quicker or more active in Normal mode compared to Eco mode. As a result, this leads to the GS feeling like a smaller car, feeling a lot nimbler and easier to drive/place on the road than Eco mode.
Sport S mode: Slightly firmer ride quality over Normal mode, slightly quicker steering ratio/response, noticeably more body control in all areas (heave, sway, roll, pitch, and squat) while still maintaining some comfort, but the ride is definitely busier at this point. Braking response improves in this mode (requires less pedal travel to stop) but effort (weighting in pedal) seems about the same. Noticeably better road feel, especially in the steering department.
Sport S+ mode: The firmest and most aggressive setting possible. Should be a pretty big change, especially if you switch from Eco straight to Sport S+ and back. Steering ratio is the quickest here. Steering weight is the heaviest here. Brake pedal feel is the stiffest and brake pedal response is the sharpest. Highest amount of body motion control. Highest amount of road feel and control.
A takeaway... The GS and all of its systems are highly adaptive. If you put your car in Eco mode and drive like you stole it, you won't be getting the results above, especially if you use the kickdown switch. Any time the kickdown switch is pressed, the suspension automatically kicks into a stiffer setting for a short period of time. On the other hand, if you put your car in Sport S+ mode but drive like a sweet little old lady, you will not be getting all that mode has to offer. You have to drive with intent for the best results as the car is always watching your driving style and adapting to match, regardless of drive mode selection. The drives modes are more or less baseline settings that you can choose but will fluctuate based on your driving/road conditions. They are always adapting and always doing what they feel is best for the situation and for what the driver's asking of it. It's not an on/off type of system where it's either soft or firm, sharp or relaxed, etc. There are a lot of in-betweens. It's a pretty advanced setup that is always active and always reacting to keep things in check. It is not a passive system like in many other vehicles.
Side note: I have a new theory I'm working on debunking. I just started using the Customize drive mode and have it set to "Normal" powertrain and "Sport" chassis. I have a hunch that "Sport" chassis is not quite the same as whatever happens in "Sport S+" mode, like I initially thought it would be, but still figuring this one out.
Last edited by signdetres; 08-17-20 at 08:50 AM.
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08-17-20, 08:59 AM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
That is interesting you find differences in suspension between each mode and Eco mode feels the softest to you. I never put the car in Eco mode anymore(hate a dulled throttle/dulled AC) except when going on a long trip and just cruising for hours for possibly some extra mpg so I can't really build up any real experience that there is a difference in suspension. I thought AVS was something more that was only activated only in Sport+ to deliver firmer dampening, I honestly don't find it that noticeably different then Sport, I am in a Luxury though. I may go out and try Eco to see if I notice the suspension feels softer or how big a difference it is between Sport+ but I never really thought it changed aside from Sport +.
08-17-20, 10:06 AM
#23
Racer
@UDel AVS is always active from the instant the wheels start rolling. If the vehicle is in motion, it is working 100% of the time to counteract the effects of heave, roll & pitch.
Our GS has the system on the right, where the system is looking at all four corners of the car as a whole and controls the body motions from a central point, rather than independently adjusting each corner.
Our GS has the system on the right, where the system is looking at all four corners of the car as a whole and controls the body motions from a central point, rather than independently adjusting each corner.
Last edited by signdetres; 08-17-20 at 10:09 AM.
08-17-20, 10:18 AM
#24
Racer
Here are some points I've taken from this Lexus blog's article. A couple things, they are referencing the RC F-Sport every time they say "RC F" and not the actual RC F.
Semi-active means that the suspension can react and adjust as needed but cannot control itself like an "active" system can. An active system would be something that uses hydraulics, air, etc. and can actively control the position of the wheel.
The 16 different settings refer to the settings the damper itself can adjust through and select from. Each corner of the car is adjusted independently.
Determining the level of dampening needed, the RC F’s adaptive-variable suspension is capable of kicking in within 2.5 milliseconds of changing road conditions. The car’s semi-active shock-absorbent system offers 16 different settings and four various modes: Eco, Normal, Sport and Sport+.
The 16 different settings refer to the settings the damper itself can adjust through and select from. Each corner of the car is adjusted independently.
The beauty of the RCF’s AVS system is that it continuously adjusts the shocks as needed. In Normal mode, drivers can expect a soft, smooth ride much like that of other Lexus models. When the speed of the vehicle increases, the AVS boosts the dampening force of each shock absorber to offer a firmer ride, while lessening body motion.
When the vehicle moves at a slower pace, the Adaptive Variable Suspension creates a smoother ride for the driver, which is reminiscent of the trademark Lexus comfort. AVS was created to respond not only to road conditions and vehicle speed, but driving style as well. With this system, Lexus’ hydro-pneumatic accumulators take in oil from the car’s permeated shock absorbers and then provide high pressure oil to limit the amount of bounce experienced after hitting bumps in the road.
This helps keeps the body of the vehicle flat and eliminates the ‘dive and squat’ that comes from braking and acceleration, while filtering excessive road noise. The AVS automatically and independently acts to offer a better ride.
This helps keeps the body of the vehicle flat and eliminates the ‘dive and squat’ that comes from braking and acceleration, while filtering excessive road noise. The AVS automatically and independently acts to offer a better ride.
08-18-20, 03:57 AM
#25
There have been times in the past where Lexus' official literature/documents/website state one thing about their vehicles that simply isn't true based on how the cars are/behave in real life. One of their claims is that the only changes that occur to the Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS) happen in Sport S+ mode (i.e. in this mode, the suspension dampening stiffens, the steering weight gets heavier, and the steering ratio gets quicker).
From my almost 3 years with my 2018 GS and now almost 6 years with our 2015 GS (which I also daily drove at one point), I've found that this isn't the case at all. I've found that changes occur in each and every drive mode.
Eco mode: Softest dampening, causes the floatiest ride sensation, a good bit softer than Normal mode. Variable Gear Ratio Steering (VGRS) seems to slow down the steering ratio also, resulting in what I think is the best mode for just cruising, especially on long freeway drives. In terms of steering, the GS feels most stable at higher speeds in this mode as even Normal mode has a quicker steering response which can cause it to feel a little bit darty at higher speeds. I've also found that brake pedal feel and response changes throughout the drive modes. In Eco mode, the pedal is softer/spongier and requires more pedal travel to stop the car. Overall, this is the most detached and isolated drive mode with the least amount of road feel. This suspension mode results in the least body control in terms of heave, sway, roll, pitch, and squat.
From my almost 3 years with my 2018 GS and now almost 6 years with our 2015 GS (which I also daily drove at one point), I've found that this isn't the case at all. I've found that changes occur in each and every drive mode.
Eco mode: Softest dampening, causes the floatiest ride sensation, a good bit softer than Normal mode. Variable Gear Ratio Steering (VGRS) seems to slow down the steering ratio also, resulting in what I think is the best mode for just cruising, especially on long freeway drives. In terms of steering, the GS feels most stable at higher speeds in this mode as even Normal mode has a quicker steering response which can cause it to feel a little bit darty at higher speeds. I've also found that brake pedal feel and response changes throughout the drive modes. In Eco mode, the pedal is softer/spongier and requires more pedal travel to stop the car. Overall, this is the most detached and isolated drive mode with the least amount of road feel. This suspension mode results in the least body control in terms of heave, sway, roll, pitch, and squat.
Because we went into a stage 4 covid lockdown as soon as i purchased my gs, i havent got to actually properley drive it other than literally the 5 minute drive to the shops and back. I can immediately tell the difference between normal > sports + but i havent thought too much about how eco feels.
I wish there was a setting for softest suspension + firmest steering. I hate the flimsy feel of the steering wheel on normal setting.
08-18-20, 06:44 AM
#26
Racer
Thank you for the detailed write up! Its interesting the lexus engineers went to all this trouble to create the technology however most of it isnt mentioned.
Because we went into a stage 4 covid lockdown as soon as i purchased my gs, i havent got to actually properley drive it other than literally the 5 minute drive to the shops and back. I can immediately tell the difference between normal > sports + but i havent thought too much about how eco feels.
I wish there was a setting for softest suspension + firmest steering. I hate the flimsy feel of the steering wheel on normal setting.
Because we went into a stage 4 covid lockdown as soon as i purchased my gs, i havent got to actually properley drive it other than literally the 5 minute drive to the shops and back. I can immediately tell the difference between normal > sports + but i havent thought too much about how eco feels.
I wish there was a setting for softest suspension + firmest steering. I hate the flimsy feel of the steering wheel on normal setting.
08-22-20, 05:07 PM
#27
08-23-20, 04:36 AM
#28
Racer
You can't. The customization options are super limited.
Steering and suspension are linked together under "Chassis." The only available options are "normal" or "sport". Can't touch steering/suspension independently, unfortunately.
Steering and suspension are linked together under "Chassis." The only available options are "normal" or "sport". Can't touch steering/suspension independently, unfortunately.
08-25-20, 05:17 PM
#29
I wonder if there are any aftermarket options which change the settings, eg: a flick switch which just changes the steering wheel resistance.
08-26-20, 03:24 AM
#30
*****. I just assumed!
It's all digital bus and software driven. I suspect you would have to control each system individually. It wouldn't be hard to send a signal to the shocks to go to x position, but you'd lose the 24/7 adaptive function.
The VGRS gear would receive a signal from it's ECU, it wouldn't be hard to control that either. In theory - I bet it's not simple like 0-10v or 4-20ma, probably PWM or something....who knows, maybe the vgrs itself is on the bus.
The VGRS gear would receive a signal from it's ECU, it wouldn't be hard to control that either. In theory - I bet it's not simple like 0-10v or 4-20ma, probably PWM or something....who knows, maybe the vgrs itself is on the bus.