jjscsix

I assume you mean the GS being an overpriced Avalon.....no, not by a long shot. The Avalon is essentially a stretched front drive Camry platform. The GS is a rear drive platform.

metrathon

Most probably because you haven't owned one. Driving an engine with max twist at 1,600 RPM is amazing.

I don't care about neither of these. I lease my cars and I don't track them.

Why is it stupid? Because you don't like it?

The turbo 4 is an improvement over the straight 6 in every way except the sound. And the bragging rights (you're not driving 6-cyl anymore).

Well, there are only two ways of doing that: forced induction (supercharged / blown) or adding electric engines. The latter is way more complicated. So your left with FI.

Q.E.D.

SW17LS

And the current ES is based off of the Avalon, which is itself based off of the Camry.

Somebody needs to do a little more research before speaking with such authority lol

You clearly have not driven any of the newer Lexus platforms. Lexus is the least "old Buick" it has EVER been. The new GS platform used on the GS, IS & RC is a great, rigid, platform that has continually won comparisons for handling. Even the new RX is much more dynamic, as is the NX.

you should drive them and actually ready up on them, Lexus is moving in a great direction.

I too think the spindle grills have gotten a little overdone, but sales overall are up, not down...so its hard to say they've made a mistake there.

metrathon

I second that.
Unfortunately Lexus needs a lot of work and investment to gain (and keep) customers outside of the Bingo generation. The platform was the first step (IS, GS, new RX). The modern interior was the second (new RX). I hope the third step will be in the engine department. Fourth should be the entertainment system.

10tlshawd

Its kind of hard to sell something you don't have a lot of.Here in the midwest the Lexus dealers only have a few 2016 GS's on there lots.Most don't have any f sports or maybe one.Not having much to choose from is hard to make a sale.I asked my local dealer if any Gs f sports where coming in soon.They said no but might be able to find me one.Any one else notice low inventory at dealers with the Gs?Is this normal for Lexus or is something going on at there plant?

charley95

I live in central il. and notice the same thing. Went to Chicago on fri. and some of the lots up there have about 2-3 F-Sports. I'll be buying one in 2018 and will probably go somewhere in the south to pick one up. I want a RWD F-Sport which they don't sell much of here in the rust belt. I won't be driving mine in the winter when I pick one up.

abbeyrd

Turbos bring a hell of a lot of heat and it isn't good. We all know why they're using turbos now. its the only way for them to meet the CAFE MPG standards. I'm not saying it gives more torque early on or better MPG. BMW did have torquey engine without turbos before. The problems of turbocharging that put the nails into its technological coffin the first time around haven’t changed. When you turbocharge an engine, the increased pressure produced by force-feeding extra air into it raises the temperature and pressure in the combustion chamber to the point where the engine wants to self-destruct. Yes, things are different now from the early turbos and they are much more efficient with cooling, etc. But you still have more heat and it can never be good.

You lease? I own. Thus, I care and you don't. Actually own a car and then tell me you have no worries about something else that will go wrong.

Start/stop stupid because I think so? No. Barely saves gas as tests have proven. Again done to ring out every drop of gas for better MPG. Can't be good for your starter can it?

Bragging rights? I don't own a 6 cyl? I sure do. Straight 6 and one of the last from 2012 before they went to turbo 4. Smooth as silk and a fantastic engine. Turbo 4? Better in MPG. My straight 6? A reliable, proven, and fantastic engine for years with actually quite good MPG as well.

SW17LS

Again, you think you know more than you actually do on this subject. Cars with start stop technology don't use a regular starter. Ever driven a car with start/stop technology? The engine comes back on seamlessly and with no crank. The starter that is used is a higher capacity generator/starter similar to what is employed in a hybrid car. It's able to handle FAR more start/stop cycles and exert more action on the engine, much more robust.

The real concern is start/stop cycles on the engine itself and wear. Better bearings, metals, lubricants help with that, and the computer never lets the engine stay off long enough for it to cool down, reducing cold engine wear.

Technology is ever moving forward, what would have caused your concerns years ago is no longer an issue now.

As for fuel savings, start/stop technology increases fuel economy 5-7%. Not nothing.

praetor

GS was originally based on the Toyota Aristo. I believe it's on it's own platform now but brand *****s don't really care. They are perfectly happy driving a stripped down C class Mercedes or 3 Series.

Also, I think the GS suffers from the same problem as the Nissan Maxima. To the average consumer the Altima is too similar in size and engine to the Maxima and doesn't justify the price. It's the same with the ES and the GS. You have to be an enthusiast to appreciate the GS for it's performance and luxury blend.

praetor

While in San Francisco I drove around in a 2016 Prius. I was actually very impressed with the start/stop technology and the mileage. Trying to go uphill though was a bit unnerving. It made it but it was at a crawl. LOL

SW17LS

Not really, the GS was not "based on" the Toyota Aristo. The GS was sold in Japan as the Toyota Aristo. The Aristo was sold for a couple years in Japan before it was released here as the GS300 but that was part of Toyotas roll out of Lexus and limiting product to focus on and handle. It was simply that Lexus did not exist in Japan, so Lexus cars were sold there under Toyota nameplates. The LS was the Celsior, but that doesn't mean that the LS was "based on a Toyota Celsior".

For a long time the GS/Aristo was based off of a platform family that included the Toyota Crown.

Brand such as it is here wasn't a thing in Japan. Toyotas were sold as luxury cars all the way down to economy cars. That's changing which is why Lexus does exist there now.

coolsaber

Turbos bring alot of heat, but as long as you tune it in the Toyota way its not going to be bad, just look at the 4 pot turbo in the NX, IS, GS. The NX whose had it the longest does not seem to have any issues thus far, besides of course the rattly exhaust note heard inside the car.

I think the best scenario for what your concerns are seems to be the N63/S63 (non TU) engine line from BMW. Temperatures were extreme as it is due to design. Their cooling system was Inadequate due to the efficiency features BMW introduced such as start/stop and on-demand. The cooling system was electrically based and would demand huge loads on the battery even after parking the car and turning it off. Due to those E features and huge elecrical loads after turning off the car, owners would come back to find dead vehicles, as the cars battery would not be able to cool the engine, and sustain a normal charge when it could be recharged only it went below 80% capacity. To correct it, they have given owners a couple choices (sell their car get a ceritifcate towards a new car, or every 10k miles add a new battery if the old battery has failed).


Start/Stop is not a huge fuel saver but in the race to MPG king, even 1% is considered a huge improvement. I know some new car owners for certain brands clamored for a way to turn off S/S but the official company line was that they could not since S/S helped them achieve their published fuel economy numbers.

coolsaber

Lexus is doing that, I guess the earliest you`ll see their new replacement for the V6 will be the 2018 RX350L (or whatever thats going to be called).

The infotainment and new design direction will be the LS replacement, as if i understand correctly, Lexus is going to adopt the German state of design of Top down engineering. LS will set the precedent of whats to come. Might even be a turbo 8

metrathon

Obviously there are hundreds of thousands of turbo engines being sold and I yet to see a recall for heated engines. The heat might be there but it's well dealt with, it's not an issue.

Something tells me most owners of new BMWs don't keep their cars for more than 6 years, and that's covered by warranty. If you want to keep a luxury car for more than 6 yrs, then get a Lexus.

My comment wasn't directed at you, it was a general observation that some 4 cyl owners are reluctant to admit they drive a 4 cyl.

As far as the 6 cyl vs 4 cyl turbo, the 6 was an amazing engine ... for its time. Now is slow, thirsty and peaky. Still makes a good sound tho.

metrathon

Not sure what you mean.