"Sales of the Lexus GS were also down 40.6 percent to 1,524 units."
05-11-16, 08:45 AM
#166
Lead Lap
Lexus in the past had different design directions for each of their models suites. In the german marques, The most expensive model is launched with the new series of infotainment, powertrain options, etc think of it as the launch model for all their latest and greatest.
From there, most of that vehicle trickles down into their refreshes or new model launches.
The LS will set the precedent, and from there you`ll see every single vehicle from there on will get those groups of tech implemented.
From there, most of that vehicle trickles down into their refreshes or new model launches.
The LS will set the precedent, and from there you`ll see every single vehicle from there on will get those groups of tech implemented.
05-11-16, 10:16 AM
#167
Lead Lap
Except, the GS essentially drove this wide mouth front end and 12" infotainment screen, as the Lexus line standard...
Forget the GX, since they have no freaking clue what they're going to do with that model.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Forget the GX, since they have no freaking clue what they're going to do with that model.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
05-11-16, 10:28 AM
#168
Lead Lap
hence they are going in a different direction for the upcoming LS
05-11-16, 10:36 AM
#169
Pole Position
Thread Starter
It might more about timing. It depends which model is due for refresh and what technologies are ready for prime time at that time.
For example, if there's a new tech ready just in time for the launch of the new C Klasse, and the new/refreshed S Klasse is due in 3 years, I don't think they are going to postpone the introduction of the new tech for so long. Unless it's a very expensive, exclusive thing, that doesn't make sense on the C Klasse.
For example, if there's a new tech ready just in time for the launch of the new C Klasse, and the new/refreshed S Klasse is due in 3 years, I don't think they are going to postpone the introduction of the new tech for so long. Unless it's a very expensive, exclusive thing, that doesn't make sense on the C Klasse.
05-11-16, 10:42 AM
#170
Pole Position
Thread Starter
I think GS's biggest problem is the ES. Bigger, more comfortable, but cheaper. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It's the sore thumb in an otherwise classic model architecture: 3/5/7, C/E/S, A4/A6/A8, IS/ES/GS/LS.
Spot the difference.
Spot the difference.
05-11-16, 10:50 AM
#171
Lexus Fanatic
Hard to say the ES is a sore thumb when its as popular as it is. Think about it this way, the reason BMW and Audi have had to compromise the dynamics of their sport sedan is because they need to appeal to that buyer by making their cars bigger and softer. Because Lexus has the ES, they can keep the GS smaller and more dynamic...same as the IS. Which is a win for you as an enthusiast.
05-11-16, 11:16 AM
#172
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Thats why the GS sales' are lower. Its a question of it being a "problem". Remember Lexus said they wanted to sell 24,000 GS's a year in the US, if you look at the figures its close to that, they just need incentives to get the enthusiast type buyer away from other nameplates.
Hard to say the ES is a sore thumb when its as popular as it is. Think about it this way, the reason BMW and Audi have had to compromise the dynamics of their sport sedan is because they need to appeal to that buyer by making their cars bigger and softer. Because Lexus has the ES, they can keep the GS smaller and more dynamic...same as the IS. Which is a win for you as an enthusiast.
Hard to say the ES is a sore thumb when its as popular as it is. Think about it this way, the reason BMW and Audi have had to compromise the dynamics of their sport sedan is because they need to appeal to that buyer by making their cars bigger and softer. Because Lexus has the ES, they can keep the GS smaller and more dynamic...same as the IS. Which is a win for you as an enthusiast.
- ES brings in nice numbers
- ES is the main reason why GS doesn't sell better
- ES is the main reason why GS has a better dynamic than all its competitors, minus CTS.
05-11-16, 11:59 AM
#173
Lexus Fanatic
Yup, on the same page!
05-11-16, 04:24 PM
#174
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Again, you think you know more than you actually do on this subject. Cars with start stop technology don't use a regular starter. Ever driven a car with start/stop technology? The engine comes back on seamlessly and with no crank. The starter that is used is a higher capacity generator/starter similar to what is employed in a hybrid car. It's able to handle FAR more start/stop cycles and exert more action on the engine, much more robust.
The real concern is start/stop cycles on the engine itself and wear. Better bearings, metals, lubricants help with that, and the computer never lets the engine stay off long enough for it to cool down, reducing cold engine wear.
Technology is ever moving forward, what would have caused your concerns years ago is no longer an issue now.
As for fuel savings, start/stop technology increases fuel economy 5-7%. Not nothing.
The real concern is start/stop cycles on the engine itself and wear. Better bearings, metals, lubricants help with that, and the computer never lets the engine stay off long enough for it to cool down, reducing cold engine wear.
Technology is ever moving forward, what would have caused your concerns years ago is no longer an issue now.
As for fuel savings, start/stop technology increases fuel economy 5-7%. Not nothing.
05-11-16, 04:38 PM
#175
Lexus Fanatic
I don't personally like that feature (I don't think anybody likes it) but what I can't stand is people posting stuff that's just not correct.
05-11-16, 04:38 PM
#176
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Obviously there are hundreds of thousands of turbo engines being sold and I yet to see a recall for heated engines. The heat might be there but it's well dealt with, it's not an issue.
Something tells me most owners of new BMWs don't keep their cars for more than 6 years, and that's covered by warranty. If you want to keep a luxury car for more than 6 yrs, then get a Lexus.
My comment wasn't directed at you, it was a general observation that some 4 cyl owners are reluctant to admit they drive a 4 cyl.
As far as the 6 cyl vs 4 cyl turbo, the 6 was an amazing engine ... for its time. Now is slow, thirsty and peaky. Still makes a good sound tho.
Something tells me most owners of new BMWs don't keep their cars for more than 6 years, and that's covered by warranty. If you want to keep a luxury car for more than 6 yrs, then get a Lexus.
My comment wasn't directed at you, it was a general observation that some 4 cyl owners are reluctant to admit they drive a 4 cyl.
As far as the 6 cyl vs 4 cyl turbo, the 6 was an amazing engine ... for its time. Now is slow, thirsty and peaky. Still makes a good sound tho.
It handles better and a lot more fun to drive than any of my 3 previous Lexus autos. It averaged close to 30 mpg on my drive from nJ to Fla. better than my RAV4 or CRV or SC 430 ever did. Now if Lexus would copy BMW's driving technology instead of a rolling couch, you would have some car that I would buy in a second. Even BMW is "dumming" down its vaulted driving characteristics now. Everyone's vying for the same dollar.
05-11-16, 04:43 PM
#177
Lead Lap
Sorry for not clarifying electric starter for you. I remember an article whereby C&D took a trip using and not using the auto start/ stop and I think it was on a BMW. The savings were very small and not even worth the hassle with what was a rough restart on that particular model. I don't profess to as much as a mechanic. Man, you take it so personally, people would think you're getting royalties on this system. One thing I know for sure, on/off, on/off, etc isn't a good thing. What do you expect? The manufacturers to tell you that? They're counting on idiots like me who purchase the cars and not lease them.
All three of our test subjects delivered the estimated 10 percent in city traffic. People who live in particularly tough traffic areas with long wait times could do even better.
And the systems were mostly easy to live with. Restarts were fairly seamless and seemed appropriately quick for drivers who use the same foot for throttle and brake. Two-footed drivers who left-foot brake, on the other hand, could find themselves ahead of the engine restart cycle.
Stop-start is hard to ignore in a loud car like the Jaguar. This technology seems most ideally suited to cars that idle so quietly you barely know they're running. The F-Type gets away with it, though, because the snarling restart note of its powerful V8 is entertaining enough that you don't mind hearing it over and over.
Functionally, stop-start doesn't take very long to get used to — in our three test cars, at least. The biggest obstacle is mental: overcoming that sinking feeling that your engine just died. Once you get past that, you'll welcome the silence.
On the other hand, if it turns out you just don't like it or it doesn't suit your driving style that "off" button is not far out of reach.
05-11-16, 04:43 PM
#178
Lexus Fanatic
Again...you need to drive some of these new Lexus vehicles, specifically the GS and IS. Not rolling couches. Beat BMW in comparison tests when it comes to handling. At this point the 5 Series is a good bit softer and more couch like than the GS.
05-11-16, 04:55 PM
#179
Lead Lap
For the IS its a bit of a different story (especially with soo many new kids on the block especially the ATS which outhandled the 3). Out the gate the chassis felt ok, not as big of an improvement over the outgoing, the engines initially offered were a huge letdown, but was really a huge hit was the interior. The material quality was wayyyyy better then say the 3 series or C at the time. However the refresh and 4 pots are going to help, but the upper end spectrum still feels underwhelming in the engine department. However a 3 series competitor usually will sell well, and unlike the GS sells in good # without having to resort to trunk money
05-11-16, 05:02 PM
#180
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I`d agree that on initial launch, the GS had taken the BMWs lunch money. Plenty of third party comparos won, Lexus put BMW in a bad place in car journos (sales however did not reflect this for both Lexus or BMW as Lexus had to pay people to buy a GS). However after mid cycle refresh the 5 series took that back with a couple more enhancements and is back as the leader in the midsize saloon category. Lexus is still a formidable opponent, as it offers hell of a lot better after sales support, reliability, and resale, but to a performance junky nothing currently beats a BMW 5.
For the IS its a bit of a different story (especially with soo many new kids on the block especially the ATS which outhandled the 3). Out the gate the chassis felt ok, not as big of an improvement over the outgoing, the engines initially offered were a huge letdown, but was really a huge hit was the interior. The material quality was wayyyyy better then say the 3 series or C at the time. However the refresh and 4 pots are going to help, but the upper end spectrum still feels underwhelming in the engine department. However a 3 series competitor usually will sell well, and unlike the GS sells in good # without having to resort to trunk money
For the IS its a bit of a different story (especially with soo many new kids on the block especially the ATS which outhandled the 3). Out the gate the chassis felt ok, not as big of an improvement over the outgoing, the engines initially offered were a huge letdown, but was really a huge hit was the interior. The material quality was wayyyyy better then say the 3 series or C at the time. However the refresh and 4 pots are going to help, but the upper end spectrum still feels underwhelming in the engine department. However a 3 series competitor usually will sell well, and unlike the GS sells in good # without having to resort to trunk money
I just wish they start really moving on and not just cosmetically for the Fast & Furious crowd. Even CR likes the GS but admits it's never been a seller while it pans the IS (even the 350) that it doesn't even recommend it. When have you ever seen CR do that to a Lexus?