Thoughts on new tires?
05-26-16, 10:13 PM
#31
Pole Position
Thread Starter
A new tire will not handle the same as a broken-in tire.
Tires that come as OEM are sometimes quite expensive. Anybody can guess the exact reason, but it is often theorized that they're expensive specifically because they were OEM. But I've never heard of a "same model" vs. "OEM"....as an example, a Michelin Primacy MXM4 is the same tire whether it shipped on your car or was purchased from somewhere else. But a new tire will not handle or sound like a used tire. Some tire models age gracefully, others not so much.
I've read reviews of tires specifically marketed as having noise-cancelling design, only to find after they start to wear they get excessively loud. Welcome to the real world.
Tires that come as OEM are sometimes quite expensive. Anybody can guess the exact reason, but it is often theorized that they're expensive specifically because they were OEM. But I've never heard of a "same model" vs. "OEM"....as an example, a Michelin Primacy MXM4 is the same tire whether it shipped on your car or was purchased from somewhere else. But a new tire will not handle or sound like a used tire. Some tire models age gracefully, others not so much.
I've read reviews of tires specifically marketed as having noise-cancelling design, only to find after they start to wear they get excessively loud. Welcome to the real world.
That's honestly the first time that I've heard that claim as well, but that's true that it'll take a bit of time to break in the tire. Totally forgot about that lol. Was too distracted today
05-28-16, 09:24 PM
#32
Mine came with the Dunlops and I look forward to replacing them, but I will probably let them run their course.
05-31-16, 07:02 AM
#33
Lexus Test Driver
Yeah, tire characteristics change over time thanks in part to the layers. There's a soft outer layer in many passenger tires that contributes to ride quality and once its gone, you're left with the hard inner layer. Not to mention, fractions of an inch make a big difference too. In fact, lately, some manufacturers have been advertising a formulation that stays the same throughout the life of the tire; now why do you think they'd advertise that feature?
Most tires, as they get close to replacement, get loud and ride more roughly. Some new tires feel "squirmy" when you push them, especially for the first thousand miles or so. I had two sets of Yokohama's that did this on a G35, but once I got over the hump with them, they settled down and got predictable.
Most tires, as they get close to replacement, get loud and ride more roughly. Some new tires feel "squirmy" when you push them, especially for the first thousand miles or so. I had two sets of Yokohama's that did this on a G35, but once I got over the hump with them, they settled down and got predictable.
05-31-16, 11:46 AM
#34
Okay, so I ended up going with 4 of the P7s plus instead just two for the fronts. Figured that I mind as well since I have three tires that I need replacing. The last one I just stuck in my garage. Not sure what I want to do with it yet. It's not that old and has lots of tread left. Like close to near new.. which is a shame -__-.
I asked the guy at the tire shop the same question that I posted on here in regards to the DWS06's and the P7 plus. He started off by saying that OEM tires are completely different tires than their same model counterpart that we purchase after we go through the first set of tires that come with the car. He also mentioned that there's usually some sort labeling on the sidewall of the OEM tires that differentiate them and that OEM tires are meant to be really comfortable or excel at what they're supposed to do for the first 10k miles or so (depends on the tire) and then after those initial miles they rapidly decline and lose their supposed performance until the user must change their tires.
The reasoning behind that was so that customers will be more likely to buy the car initially and later they may want for the exact same tires as before, but to get the exact same OEM tires that came from the dealer, they would have to pay a premium which would be more than the cost of the same model tire that "isn't OEM" I'm not sure if I did a good job explaining that or how legitimate his claim is though.
Anyways.. after all that he said that since that's how the OEM tires are and due to me running on OEM tires.. regardless of which tire I pick.. (DWS06s or P7 plus's) there would be a world of difference since new tires and all. He said that I won't really notice that much of a difference in performance unless I drive my car pretty hard consistently. The DWS06's are great in snow and the P7s don't compare, but there is no snow in SoCal (besides in the mountains). He has had experience with both tires and there is a noticeable difference in comfort and performance in both, but the difference in comfort outweighs the difference in performance supposedly. I also mentioned that I spend a lot of time commuting for work.. (2 hours round trip a day or so) after I mentioned that he said that the choice is clear that I should go with the P7s.
I've driven a little bit in them so far and holy **** they're comfortable as all hell.. like riding on clouds lol. Night and day compared with how the OEM Michellin tires ran. I did notice the P7s don't take corners and turns as well as the older tires though. There's a noticeable difference in that. I had to drive around my older car for errands today and I'm running some fairly new Hankook V12s on that.. There's a huge noticeable difference in performance coming from the P7s to summer tires, but feeling every bump in the road isn't worth the trouble. Figured that I'd cover all the bases lol.
I asked the guy at the tire shop the same question that I posted on here in regards to the DWS06's and the P7 plus. He started off by saying that OEM tires are completely different tires than their same model counterpart that we purchase after we go through the first set of tires that come with the car. He also mentioned that there's usually some sort labeling on the sidewall of the OEM tires that differentiate them and that OEM tires are meant to be really comfortable or excel at what they're supposed to do for the first 10k miles or so (depends on the tire) and then after those initial miles they rapidly decline and lose their supposed performance until the user must change their tires.
The reasoning behind that was so that customers will be more likely to buy the car initially and later they may want for the exact same tires as before, but to get the exact same OEM tires that came from the dealer, they would have to pay a premium which would be more than the cost of the same model tire that "isn't OEM" I'm not sure if I did a good job explaining that or how legitimate his claim is though.
Anyways.. after all that he said that since that's how the OEM tires are and due to me running on OEM tires.. regardless of which tire I pick.. (DWS06s or P7 plus's) there would be a world of difference since new tires and all. He said that I won't really notice that much of a difference in performance unless I drive my car pretty hard consistently. The DWS06's are great in snow and the P7s don't compare, but there is no snow in SoCal (besides in the mountains). He has had experience with both tires and there is a noticeable difference in comfort and performance in both, but the difference in comfort outweighs the difference in performance supposedly. I also mentioned that I spend a lot of time commuting for work.. (2 hours round trip a day or so) after I mentioned that he said that the choice is clear that I should go with the P7s.
I've driven a little bit in them so far and holy **** they're comfortable as all hell.. like riding on clouds lol. Night and day compared with how the OEM Michellin tires ran. I did notice the P7s don't take corners and turns as well as the older tires though. There's a noticeable difference in that. I had to drive around my older car for errands today and I'm running some fairly new Hankook V12s on that.. There's a huge noticeable difference in performance coming from the P7s to summer tires, but feeling every bump in the road isn't worth the trouble. Figured that I'd cover all the bases lol.
05-31-16, 03:23 PM
#35
...I've driven a little bit in them so far and holy **** they're comfortable as all hell.. like riding on clouds lol. Night and day compared with how the OEM Michellin tires ran. I did notice the P7s don't take corners and turns as well as the older tires though. There's a noticeable difference in that. I had to drive around my older car for errands today and I'm running some fairly new Hankook V12s on that.. There's a huge noticeable difference in performance coming from the P7s to summer tires, but feeling every bump in the road isn't worth the trouble. Figured that I'd cover all the bases lol.
That's the trickiest part - the compromises.
You rob Peter to pay for Paul.
05-31-16, 03:30 PM
#36
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Yeah, tire characteristics change over time thanks in part to the layers. There's a soft outer layer in many passenger tires that contributes to ride quality and once its gone, you're left with the hard inner layer. Not to mention, fractions of an inch make a big difference too. In fact, lately, some manufacturers have been advertising a formulation that stays the same throughout the life of the tire; now why do you think they'd advertise that feature?
Most tires, as they get close to replacement, get loud and ride more roughly. Some new tires feel "squirmy" when you push them, especially for the first thousand miles or so. I had two sets of Yokohama's that did this on a G35, but once I got over the hump with them, they settled down and got predictable.
Most tires, as they get close to replacement, get loud and ride more roughly. Some new tires feel "squirmy" when you push them, especially for the first thousand miles or so. I had two sets of Yokohama's that did this on a G35, but once I got over the hump with them, they settled down and got predictable.
Now that you mentioned it.. I had the same exact issue with my Hankook V12s when I just got them on for quite a while. The "squirmy" feeling got worse the faster I went.. especially 70mph+. They're fine now, but I was worried before because that dumb car has always had alignment issues.
Nope, non FSport. 450H base. The P7+ tires are grand touring all season I believe. I'm tired of summer tires. Driven on them for too long in other cars.. especially my last car.. Too many people complained about how rough it is and the difference in comfort is ridiculous. I spend maybe around 2 hours or less commuting for work round trip each day and a good part of it is stuck in traffic so the choice ended up being pretty clear for me.
The DWS06s are kind of like a middle of the road option between summer tires and touring tires if you'd like to try those out. They'll most likely be more comfortable than the OEM Dunlops and you'll still have some extra performance over the P7s
05-31-16, 03:37 PM
#37
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Pretty much, but no problem. It may not stay like that once I break these tires in, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Don't get the Michelins though. If anything.. get the DWS06s if performance is the deal breaker.
05-31-16, 06:36 PM
#38
Driver School Candidate
One thing to note on the Conti DWS-06's is that, though widely reviewed to be a solid improvement over the original DWS, if you filter end-user reviews by mileage and look at those who have driven 15-20k+ miles on them, you'll find that many people are reporting significantly faster tread-wear than the 50k mile warranty would suggest. Interestingly enough, there seem to be similar complaints along the lines of tread-life when you apply the same filter to reviews for the Pirelli P7+ with it's 70k mileage warranty.
It's too bad the new Michelin Premier A/S , which looks to be taking the Primacy MXM4's place as Michelin's flagship tire in the Grand Touring All Season category, isn't available in appropriate sizes for the GS350. They seem to be very highly reviewed all around and specifically tout better wet traction than the Pirelli P7+ does. In my experience, Michelin has been the only brand of tire to give me consistently even tread-wear throughout the entire life of the tire while managing to actually exceed the factory tread-life warranty (I got 82k miles out of a set of Michelin LTX M/S2's on my 4Runner, and though plenty of those miles were highway, I by no means have a light pedal/brake foot).
The good thing is, I've never heard anything but positive remarks on how willing all 3 companies are to pro-rate and make good on their tread-life warranties.
It's too bad the new Michelin Premier A/S , which looks to be taking the Primacy MXM4's place as Michelin's flagship tire in the Grand Touring All Season category, isn't available in appropriate sizes for the GS350. They seem to be very highly reviewed all around and specifically tout better wet traction than the Pirelli P7+ does. In my experience, Michelin has been the only brand of tire to give me consistently even tread-wear throughout the entire life of the tire while managing to actually exceed the factory tread-life warranty (I got 82k miles out of a set of Michelin LTX M/S2's on my 4Runner, and though plenty of those miles were highway, I by no means have a light pedal/brake foot).
The good thing is, I've never heard anything but positive remarks on how willing all 3 companies are to pro-rate and make good on their tread-life warranties.
Last edited by Kamber; 05-31-16 at 07:05 PM.
05-31-16, 07:51 PM
#39
Pole Position
Thread Starter
One thing to note on the Conti DWS-06's is that, though widely reviewed to be a solid improvement over the original DWS, if you filter end-user reviews by mileage and look at those who have driven 15-20k+ miles on them, you'll find that many people are reporting significantly faster tread-wear than the 50k mile warranty would suggest. Interestingly enough, there seem to be similar complaints along the lines of tread-life when you apply the same filter to reviews for the Pirelli P7+ with it's 70k mileage warranty.
It's too bad the new Michelin Premier A/S , which looks to be taking the Primacy MXM4's place as Michelin's flagship tire in the Grand Touring All Season category, isn't available in appropriate sizes for the GS350. They seem to be very highly reviewed all around and specifically tout better wet traction than the Pirelli P7+ does. In my experience, Michelin has been the only brand of tire to give me consistently even tread-wear throughout the entire life of the tire while managing to actually exceed the factory tread-life warranty (I got 82k miles out of a set of Michelin LTX M/S2's on my 4Runner, and though plenty of those miles were highway, I by no means have a light pedal/brake foot).
The good thing is, I've never heard anything but positive remarks on how willing all 3 companies are to pro-rate and make good on their tread-life warranties.
It's too bad the new Michelin Premier A/S , which looks to be taking the Primacy MXM4's place as Michelin's flagship tire in the Grand Touring All Season category, isn't available in appropriate sizes for the GS350. They seem to be very highly reviewed all around and specifically tout better wet traction than the Pirelli P7+ does. In my experience, Michelin has been the only brand of tire to give me consistently even tread-wear throughout the entire life of the tire while managing to actually exceed the factory tread-life warranty (I got 82k miles out of a set of Michelin LTX M/S2's on my 4Runner, and though plenty of those miles were highway, I by no means have a light pedal/brake foot).
The good thing is, I've never heard anything but positive remarks on how willing all 3 companies are to pro-rate and make good on their tread-life warranties.
Actually kind of curious if you or anyone has had experience with tread-life warranties. Never really had an opportunity yet make use of it.. so was just wondering how you'd go about it and what to expect?
Thanks
05-31-16, 08:06 PM
#40
There's also a rather high price premium for anything Michelin though as compared to other companies.
Actually kind of curious if you or anyone has had experience with tread-life warranties. Never really had an opportunity yet make use of it.. so was just wondering how you'd go about it and what to expect?
Thanks
Actually kind of curious if you or anyone has had experience with tread-life warranties. Never really had an opportunity yet make use of it.. so was just wondering how you'd go about it and what to expect?
Thanks
Regardless, as with any tire company, some of their models are better and some are worse.I only used a treadwear warranty via Discount Tire after getting irreparable damage and they simply prorated the value and applied to a replacement tire.
FYI today was my first time really in the rain with the OEM Dunlops and I gotta say, holy slip'n'slide Batman!
05-31-16, 09:27 PM
#41
Driver School Candidate
There's also a rather high price premium for anything Michelin though as compared to other companies.
Actually kind of curious if you or anyone has had experience with tread-life warranties. Never really had an opportunity yet make use of it.. so was just wondering how you'd go about it and what to expect?
Thanks
Actually kind of curious if you or anyone has had experience with tread-life warranties. Never really had an opportunity yet make use of it.. so was just wondering how you'd go about it and what to expect?
Thanks
There were definitely cheaper options, but none were nearly as well reviewed, and I feel that I more-than got my money's worth just from the 82k mile tread life and no-hassle even-tread-wear. it's definitely harder to distinguish a clear winner amongst the fierce competition within the UHP-A/S or GT-A/S segment.
I believe the process that Spoogenet described, in which a pro-rated value of your tire(s) are simply applied to replacement(s), is the standard procedure in the industry. I'd just double check with whichever retailer you choose to purchase your tires from on how to go about making a tread-wear warranty claim and what is required of you (proof of alignment, balancing, rotation?), that way you are prepared should the need to do so arise.
I don't have any experiences with having to make a premature tread-wear warranty claim yet myself, as I replaced that set of LTX M/S2's with a new set of the same tire and am expecting just as good results as the last time. I did go through Costco to buy both sets though, and had to make use of the road hazard warranty to replace 2 different tires out of that first set on separate occasions (punctured by a massive nails) and had the pro-ration applied without a problem both times. Though to be fair, I believe that is all Costco and has nothing to do with Michelin. In fact, the tire on my full size spare 5th wheel is the most recently pro-rated replacement tire, which still has a lot of tread left because it hasn't seen nearly as many miles as the ones that were on the vehicle for the entire 82k miles.
If you do some looking around, there are quite a few accounts of people needing to file a premature tread-wear claim against the tread life warranty, and so far I havn't really seen any horror stories from that process in regard to Continental, Michelin, nor Pirelli.
Last edited by Kamber; 05-31-16 at 10:13 PM.
05-31-16, 10:01 PM
#42
Pole Position
Thread Starter
I find Michelin's are expensive. I've heard from multiple sources they make the roundest tire in the industry (least balancing required) and that, if true, would drive a higher cost. Besides....it's because so much is riding on your tires! Regardless, as with any tire company, some of their models are better and some are worse.
I only used a treadwear warranty via Discount Tire after getting irreparable damage and they simply prorated the value and applied to a replacement tire.
FYI today was my first time really in the rain with the OEM Dunlops and I gotta say, holy slip'n'slide Batman!
Regardless, as with any tire company, some of their models are better and some are worse.I only used a treadwear warranty via Discount Tire after getting irreparable damage and they simply prorated the value and applied to a replacement tire.
FYI today was my first time really in the rain with the OEM Dunlops and I gotta say, holy slip'n'slide Batman!
Figure i'll have to go back to the shop that I bought the tires from to begin with. Luckily it's not too far away.. but yes, that's pretty common response from people with the OEM Dunlops lolol
I agree that Michelin typically comes with a price premium over other brands. Luckily for me, it wasn't nearly as hard a decision when shopping for SUV tires, as there were not nearly as many other excellent options available and at similar or lower price points; I did some research and was more than sold on the LTX M/S2 being the best possible tire choice for a 99% road-going SUV in a 4-season climate.
There were definitely cheaper options, but none were nearly as well reviewed, and I feel that I more-than got my money's worth just from the 82k mile tread life and no-hassle even-tread-wear. it's definitely harder to distinguish a clear winner amongst the fierce competition within the UHP-A/S or GT-A/S segment.
I believe the process that Spoogenet described, in which a pro-rated value of your tire(s) are simply applied to replacement(s), is the standard procedure in the industry. I'd just double check with whichever retailer you choose to purchase your tires from on how to go about making a tread-wear warranty claim and what is required of you (proof of alignment, balancing, rotation?), that way you are prepared should the need to do so arise.
I don't have any experiences with having to make a premature tread-wear warranty claim yet myself, as I replaced that set of LTX M/S2's with a new set of the same tire and am expecting just as good results as the last time. I did go through Costco to buy both sets though, and had to make use the road hazard warranty to replace 2 different tires out of that first set on separate occasions (punctured by a massive nails) and had the pro-ration applied without a problem both times. Though to be fair, I believe that is all Costco and has nothing to do with Michelin. In fact, the tire on my full size spare 5th wheel is the most recently pro-rated replacement tire, which still has a lot of tread left because it hasn't seen nearly as many miles as the ones that were on the vehicle from the start) from that first set that lasted 82k miles.
If you do some looking around, there are quite a few accounts of people needing to file a premature tread-wear claim against the tread life warranty, and so far I havn't really seen any horror stories from that process in regard to Continental, Michelin, nor Pirelli.
There were definitely cheaper options, but none were nearly as well reviewed, and I feel that I more-than got my money's worth just from the 82k mile tread life and no-hassle even-tread-wear. it's definitely harder to distinguish a clear winner amongst the fierce competition within the UHP-A/S or GT-A/S segment.
I believe the process that Spoogenet described, in which a pro-rated value of your tire(s) are simply applied to replacement(s), is the standard procedure in the industry. I'd just double check with whichever retailer you choose to purchase your tires from on how to go about making a tread-wear warranty claim and what is required of you (proof of alignment, balancing, rotation?), that way you are prepared should the need to do so arise.
I don't have any experiences with having to make a premature tread-wear warranty claim yet myself, as I replaced that set of LTX M/S2's with a new set of the same tire and am expecting just as good results as the last time. I did go through Costco to buy both sets though, and had to make use the road hazard warranty to replace 2 different tires out of that first set on separate occasions (punctured by a massive nails) and had the pro-ration applied without a problem both times. Though to be fair, I believe that is all Costco and has nothing to do with Michelin. In fact, the tire on my full size spare 5th wheel is the most recently pro-rated replacement tire, which still has a lot of tread left because it hasn't seen nearly as many miles as the ones that were on the vehicle from the start) from that first set that lasted 82k miles.
If you do some looking around, there are quite a few accounts of people needing to file a premature tread-wear claim against the tread life warranty, and so far I havn't really seen any horror stories from that process in regard to Continental, Michelin, nor Pirelli.
06-01-16, 08:06 AM
#43
I ended up going with the DWS06. Had a few days of dry sunny weather.. and some downpours. Thus far, I'm very happy with these tires. Feels very "grippy" in the rain. The road noise has been cut down tremendously versus the OEM bridgestones.
06-01-16, 08:09 AM
#44
I have 18k miles on my OEM Dunlops and they ride very rough and have always been very noisy. Thinking of replacing them for a smoother ride. Are the newer MXM4's or P7's better for ride smoothness. My spirited driving is probably equal to most GS owners normal driving��. Will get them from Lexus so if they screw up during the mounting they will fix it such as the tire pressure sensors.
06-01-16, 09:28 AM
#45
I have 18k miles on my OEM Dunlops and they ride very rough and have always been very noisy. Thinking of replacing them for a smoother ride. Are the newer MXM4's or P7's better for ride smoothness. My spirited driving is probably equal to most GS owners normal driving��. Will get them from Lexus so if they screw up during the mounting they will fix it such as the tire pressure sensors.
Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus
Other well-reviwed GT tires are:
1. Michelin Primacy MXM4
2. Michelin Premier A/S
3. Bridgestone Serenity
4. Continental PureContact