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Nowadays there is no reason to periodically flush brake fluid. Brake fluid will last the life of the vehicle - well beyond 100,000 miles.
If you want to see clear or amber colored brake fluid in your car's brake fluid reservoir, then by all means get a brake flush or use a suction device to do a few drain-and-fills. It will make zero difference in braking, but your brake fluid in the reservoir will look mighty pretty!
If anyone wants to do drain-and-fills at the brake fluid reservoir you can use a hobby nitro fuel bottle to draw (suck) out old brake fluid and replace it with fresh brake fluid. The nitro fuel bottle has a small diameter, long aluminium pouring spout, to easily reach down into the reservoir...and the soft translucent plastic bottle is easy to squeeze to get brake fluid out carefully and efficiently.
Guys---Take a look at your brake fluid cap! Judge for yourself if it presents itself as a "closed system", and would never allow air/moisture in. I think you'll find it does not seal tight. Maybe your other cars are sealed tight, but this car is not. The cap comes right off easily and appears to have a check valve and vent. Yes, I know a lot of cars have a diaphram present that regulates the pressure within the reservoir, but I don't believe this car has such a system. With that said, I not an automotive engineer to be definitive on that topic.
Also look at your owners maintenance guide. It states 30K change intervals in black and white. Why would you disregard the advice of probably the best and brightest automotive engineers in the world?
Guys---Take a look at your brake fluid cap! Judge for yourself if it presents itself as a "closed system", and would never allow air/moisture in. I think you'll find it does not seal tight. Maybe your other cars are sealed tight, but this car is not. The cap comes right off easily and appears to have a check valve and vent. Yes, I know a lot of cars have a diaphram present that regulates the pressure within the reservoir, but I don't believe this car has such a system. With that said, I not an automotive engineer to be definitive on that topic.
Also look at your owners maintenance guide. It states 30K change intervals in black and white. Why would you disregard the advice of probably the best and brightest automotive engineers in the world?
Here is the Toyota Camry Maintenance Schedule that begins on Page 38 and runs through 120,000 miles. Toyota (who by the way owns Lexus) does not list any maintenance needed for the brake fluid.
You could have any vehicle you wish spend 10 years and 150,000 miles traveling in the rain forests of Brazil where the humidity is practically 100% all the time and where it rains more than any other place on planet Earth - and the vehicle's brake fluid would not need to be flushed and replaced.
So, we should follow the Camry maintenance schedule rather than the GS? Cool....that gets me out of ever changing the differential oil in my AWD as there is no mention of it. I don't really like the smell of that stuff anyhow, so I am relieved to not have to do that task. I guess I'll complain to my dealer that they gave me the wrong manual to follow. Those crooks probably already sold it on eBay. But I'll keep following the Camry manual anyway because a guy with a lot of posts recommended it on the internet, so it must be true. I'll just use the GS manual to line my hamster cage with. That's about all it's good for...
Guys the manual is recommended maintenance to keep your car running in factory new condition (aside from obvious wear components). That does not mean the car won't run for just as long without following it to a T.
There are lots of items in the maintenance schedule that don't need replacement when they are suggested to be replaced/addressed. Spark plugs is another one and so is differential fluid (in the fact the maintenance schedule never recommends replacement, just ongoing inspection every 10k miles. Most service departments will "recommend" you do this every 40k. Totally unnecessary that frequently.). Do you really change your plugs every 60k? If so that is a total waste of $ (albeit needed if you want to keep the emissions warranty intact), modern plugs go 100k with no maintenance.
I am of course joking around and just trying to make a point that things aren't always as they appear.
Go look at your cap. If you think it's totally air tight...great, don't change the fluid. I think you'll find it's not a tight seal.
I know that you are just joking around.
My point is - the Toyota Camry does not even mention replacing the brake fluid whereas Lexus does. Both vehicles have brakes... Have you wondered why the difference? You should!
You certainty don't have to take my view as the gospel. The below paragraph is a quote from a published article. Maybe you can make sense of the disparity in the car maker's maintenance requirements. My point being - the disparity demonstrates that periodically replacing the brake fluid is far more of a profitable maintenance item (for some car maker's service departments) than it is a maintenance necessity.
Three years is the recommended interval for most Volkswagens, but Mercedes-Benz vehicles typically call for fresh fluid every two years or 20,000 miles. Honda says to do it every three years regardless of the vehicle's mileage. Subaru recommends fresh brake fluid every 30,000 miles. In contrast, on the Ford Escape, Hyundai Elantra, Toyota Camry and other models from those manufacturers, there are no recommendations for replacing the brake fluid, only instructions to inspect it periodically. On the other hand, most Chevrolet vehicles can go 150,000 miles or 10 years without a brake fluid change, according to Chevy's maintenance schedule.
Guys---Take a look at your brake fluid cap! Judge for yourself if it presents itself as a "closed system", and would never allow air/moisture in. I think you'll find it does not seal tight. Maybe your other cars are sealed tight, but this car is not. The cap comes right off easily and appears to have a check valve and vent. Yes, I know a lot of cars have a diaphram present that regulates the pressure within the reservoir, but I don't believe this car has such a system. With that said, I not an automotive engineer to be definitive on that topic.
Also look at your owners maintenance guide. It states 30K change intervals in black and white. Why would you disregard the advice of probably the best and brightest automotive engineers in the world?
Mine has a bellows in the lid and it appears to create a good, water tight seal. It's your money, spend it how you like. I'm just trying make the case that it is about profit, not safety. My motto from before I could drive is, "The factory had a good idea but poor execution." That's why my 40MPH minibike would do 60.
Maybe we should go back to cable brakes or move to totally electric brakes. We already have electric throttle and electric assisted steering.
Depending on the manufacturer, they may either never recommend replacing your brake fluid or they actually suggest replacing your fluid every 10 years or 150,000 miles (most domestic automakers suggest this). Meanwhile, many foreign automakers talk in substantially more frequent changes, as often as every 15,000 miles. This inconsistency tells an untold story! And, the proof of the matter comes from the millions of vehicle owners that never replace their brake fluid and never have any issues whatsoever.
Respectfully disagree with those who believe brake fluid is a lifetime fluid.
Water reduces the boiling point of the brake fluid. Approx 212*F vs. 400*F.
Water will cause rust in the system, especially as water content rises.
If there were no impurities, why does the fluid turn black? Deteriorated rubber perhaps?
If the service is way overdue, your pedal feel will improve.
And remember, you are not bleeding, so start closest to the master.
Respectfully disagree with those who believe brake fluid is a lifetime fluid.
Water reduces the boiling point of the brake fluid. Approx 212*F vs. 400*F.
Water will cause rust in the system, especially as water content rises.
If there were no impurities, why does the fluid turn black? Deteriorated rubber perhaps?
If the service is way overdue, your pedal feel will improve.
And remember, you are not bleeding, so start closest to the master.
Do you know anything about brakes? Water stays in solution in DOT3&4 fluid. I've yet to see a line rust from the inside out. Always the outside in. That is a design feature. It takes a fair bit of water, 3% to degrade the fluid. You aren't intentionally pouring water into the master.
10,000 mile oil changes, lifetime transmission fluid but brake fluid that has to change every 30,000 miles? The mere fact that millions of cars are on the road with 100,000+ miles and have never had anything but rotors and pads is scientific enough to demonstrate the validity of lifetime brake fluid.
Do needless service to your vehicle. The factory manual wasn't written by God and handed down to Moses. It isn't a bible. It is designed to keep you going to Lexus so they can upsell and get you to trade in on a new model every few years.
This is worse than a Mac vs Windows or Dino vs Synthetic debate. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Respectfully disagree with those who believe brake fluid is a lifetime fluid.
Water reduces the boiling point of the brake fluid. Approx 212*F vs. 400*F.
Water will cause rust in the system, especially as water content rises.
If there were no impurities, why does the fluid turn black? Deteriorated rubber perhaps?
If the service is way overdue, your pedal feel will improve.
And remember, you are not bleeding, so start closest to the master.
I am with all those who do change the fluid. I don't take chances with brakes. But then again to each his own. I don't have to drive your car so it makes no difference to me if you do it or not.
Mr. Knucklebus - I have been working cars for 50 years. Done lotsa brake jobs. From simple pad stabs to full classic Corvette replacements.
To your points: we seem to agree on water degrading brake fluid; your 3% figure is spot on from what I've heard.
You mentioned the Lexus service intervals, Lexus dealers and even God; I did not.
I service cars myself; I enjoy it. I cannot remember using a dealer to service any of my cars, ever.
Mac vs Windows? As a computer programmer in Silicon Valley, I have Windows, Macs, Chromebooks and Ubuntu hardware.
And in the garage, I have lotsa oil, including brake fluid.
Along with $20K worth of Snap-On tools...
I service PS fluid as well...
68 L36 Plain Jane Roadster
All good my man.
And yes, we can agree to disagree.
My parents had a 1998 Honda Accord, drove 232,505 miles, never changed the brake fluid, and it was never an issue. Yes it turned a darker color over time, but who cares, no effect on the performance of the brakes. Also the front rotors were only changed once, rear never changed, pads when they wore down. I do agree the brake fluid service interval for our cars is unnecessary, but maybe when the car is 120k+ miles and the fluid starts to get darker, you want it to look new, sure change it.
06-28-18, 10:39 AM
