er34

It's a good thing for GS buyers that intend to keep their cars for awhile. Yes, the first few years of depreciation is bad, but in the long run, it's definitely not worse than MB or BMW.

charley95

That is one nice thing about the GS, you don't see them everywhere. I can go a good month and not ever see one.

OUGrad05

Interesting perspective, I think the GS is more sporty than the German brands. It's the only car in the Lexus lineup that I can say that about. Also the throttle response of the NA engine is better than in our BMWs (we have two). But you're right a lot of people think it's sluggish, and the only thing I can figure is they're test driving them in ECO mode or something else dumb.


Frankly, I think a lot of it is down to the polarizing styling. It doesn't look good in photos for the most part, especially the mid cycle refresh. However, it looks pretty damn good in person, but many write it off based on photos and move-on.

AL13NV8D3R

First of all we club lexus members are enthusiast so we know what cars are good and what are not. The average joe cannot tell the difference between an ES and GS. Believe me I know, when I bought my car an employee of mines ask me how much I paid for my GS. I told her It cost me $55,800 out the door for a new one in 2014 with a MSRP of $64,000 OTD with taxes included. She told me that her Lexus cost her $41,000 out the door and told me I over paid. I ask her what she drives and she says a ES 350. I told her I have a different model which is more expensive and she says her car and mines are the same car they look alike. Moral to that story is she is NOT an enthusiast and to her perspective the car is just an appliance.

Also we are in an era where compact or larger crossovers and suv's reign supreme. Heck even I an going to buy a New RX350 this new year 2017. I was going to buy a 2016 RX but figure should wait a while for Lexus to get the kinks out before spending another $60k on a loaded RX. I hear lots of people have issues with that new model year.

Also the GS is plenty quick, the refinement of the throttle is meant to to be smooth but non enthusiast people will perceive that as slow throttle response. When in actuality should have tested in Sport+ mode and pressed on the gas pedal harder. Heck most people won't ever experiance full acceleration on their GS because they fail to hit the full throttle mode "The detent at the end of the pedal travel" so will think full throttle on a GS is slow.

And most people who can afford these cars usually have dual income and therefore must be married and usually that comes with children. Believe me squeezing 2 kids back there takes alot of yoga and stretch exercises to get the kids in there, its a good workout. So naturally these demographics will buy something bigger.

And people who want to buy new would rather buy a cheap Honda Civic for $25k and also buy a crossover like a Honda pilot for $35k "these choices are meant to be examples". With the same money you can only buy 1 Lexus GS 350. The GS is for those who can afford a $55k+ GS350 and have a $70k SUV or crossover in the garage.

NYLiqPlat

Definitely agree with this point here. I've been on the highway w/ SPORT+ on and gunned it to pass a string of cars camping in the passing lane before. Pulled from 75MPH to 120MPH+ with ease while feeling buttery smooth as well .

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

AAAAND that is one of the original reason (before suv-era) why the GS has slower sale than the ES.

peteharvey

Does the OP mean that GS sales are slow in 2016 last year, or does he mean that GS sales are slow compared to its peers?

Firstly, the overall market is roughly the same at 17.5 million vehicles per year for 2015 and 2016.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/10...s-figures.html

Have crossover/SUV sales increased market share?
Not sure; would have to sit down and calculate.
RX sales increased by 10%, and higher than ever.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html
So maybe SUV's have expanded a little in the midsize segment at the expense of sedans?

People are more obese than ever, and overall wealth is increasing per capita, while family sizes are shrinking, land size is also decreasing per family home, yet the family home is increasing in square feet size, while the motor vehicle is increasing in height.
I'd say that the home is increasing in size, and the motor vehicle is increasing in height mainly due to obesity, an aging population, and increase in wealth.
There is also a theory that homes are becoming larger in square feet because the kids are now living with their parents for longer!

In 2016, GS sales have whoppingly fallen over 30%, while all new 5GS not expected till 2019.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

Weak midlife update 4.5GS sales the whole year around indicates that consumers may not like the new styling, or that consumers may take time to adjust to the new styling etc.
Maybe the styling is too radical, and not conservative enough for this older age group of buyers?

It could also be due to the 2016 refresh 4.5GS's firmer front shock absorbers which result in compact-like handling, at the expense of a really firm ride?

While all new E Class holds.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

Aging 5 Series to be replaced sometime in 2017 was down too, but not as badly.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

Aging A6 will be replaced in 2018 is only down a little.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/11...s-figures.html

Cadillac CTS down too.

Hyundai Genesis down too.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

Jag XF up.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html


Why are GS sales lower than other midsize luxury sedans?
Because Lexus has "two" models of midsize luxury sedans in the front drive ES, and the rear drive GS.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html
In 2016, the combined sales of ES and GS was over 73,000 units per year.
.

rjm

I think the front end design is a BIG reason for a drop in sales. I have family members and a few friends that are repeat Lexus customers and they all hate the huge bulbous grill on the new cars and say they won't buy another one. I personally think it is butt-ugly and I won't be buying another Lexus until it is re-designed. The new SUV's with the big shark-mouth grill are especially ugly and I gag when I see one coming my way. The Lexus design team really dropped a bomb on this one.

06ls430KTC

I will admit I didn't like the front of the 2016 compared to the 2015 but it grew on me and now I own a 2016

Sevn86

I have to agree with all the post above me. For me personally I do think the GS is a nice car and I drive it everyday. When the rest of the family needs to go somewhere we ditch the GS and hop in the RX. Why? Because even though the GS looks spacious from the outside, it is super cramped on the inside (especially the back seat). For those wondering none of us are obese either so we're not the problem. My family always complains about it and I hate hearing it, so I just tell them to take the RX. At one point they told me to get rid of it and get something more spacious so we can use it more often. I also think sales are slow because people have realized that the GS doesn't hold its value compared to other Lexus models. I don't think I will purchase another GS. By the way I personally like the new design direction that Lexus is going with.

UDel

Several Reasons

-No somewhat affordable V8 option. Pretty important in this segment to at least have the option.
-Hybrid priced way too high and almost non existent seller.
-Lexus ES same size, same amount of room, has all its features and luxury, similar looks inside and out, and costs much less.
-New front end and redesign looks bad, I am getting a used GS if I get one.
-New base 4 cyl is flat out bad, hope buyers are not test driving that model, probably justifies spending less on a V6 ES350.
-6 cylinder gets very poor V8 like fuel economy for the power and performance it provides, don't understand why fuel economy is so poor.
-Pretty pricey
-Lexus brand lacks cachet compared to BMW and Mercedes and that can be a factor in more expensive vehicles.

-Test drive factor. 6 cylinder not particularly quick. I test drove a new GS350 and was not impressed by the power and performance and character of the V6. It felt more like 250hp-270hp then 311hp, I even questioned if this was the 4cyl when accelerating harder or if it was in some kind of economy mode but it was the 6 cyl in Sport+. 2nd Gen IS350 and 3rd Gen GS350 felt much quicker, my older V8 GS feels quicker and is much smoother and satisfyingly when accelerating with effortless power. After the test drive I really did not think the 4th Gen was a real step up and really started thinking about getting a LS460 for the V8 despite being pretty young for that kind of car, if I get a GS350 it will be used and I don't want to pay much for it because I just was not that impressed and don't desire it that much anymore, the V8 like fuel economy is another mark against it especially if the acceleration and V8 smoothness isn't there. I can see why people may just go with a ES too after test driving the GS even though I have no interest in a ES.

OUGrad05

ES and GS are same size but not the same competitive class, so that comparison isn't valid IMO when compared with the euro cars and the CTS.
The V6 clearly makes its rated power as indicated by trap speeds and qtr mile times. It's very smooth and linear, but the car lacks torque below 3000rpm which BMW and Audi offer in spades. The 6 cylinder gets MPG on par with its competitors and other NA V6's in the space, so I don't agree with your MPG assertion. Is it as good as the BMW and Audi products? Not at all, but those are forced induction engines.

Having said that, I agree with your overall premise and point that you're trying to make, which is MPG could be better, the engine is definitely showing its age....but I'd say it's still a damn good piece and you could run to redline everyday till the end of time and never break it.

charley95

You say the front end looks bad but, the ES [Bass Mouth] isn't that much different than the GS. I think everyone makes too big of a deal about the grill when other makes are doing the same to some their line up too.

peteharvey

The ES/CT/Genesis are never exactly the same size, same specs, nor same price, however the they are in a reasonably similar range of specs, they sell, they steal sales - they affect GS sales, so they cannot be ignored.

A Camry would be in a lower class altogether.
We have to draw the line somewhere...
.

RLtoGS350

While the exterior appearance can be debated, I spend most of my time inside the car and it's pure luxury. Fit and finish are superior to most brands. IMHO.