Is Lexus killing (discontinuing) the GS Line ? (Merged threads)
08-15-18, 12:15 PM
#181
Gotcha, no worries. Just wasn't sure if you had a misconception of exactly how much power the kit will output. It is probably more than enough for a daily, but personally I'd probably opt out into a GS-F before dropping almost 10k worth of equipment to achieve similar performance out of the 350, but I realize you'd lose the AWD which may be a factor for you.
08-15-18, 12:46 PM
#182
Lead Lap
I just don’t see any possibility of Lexus abandoning the Executive midsize performance sedan segment. Worst case scenario Lexus will skip the 2019 MY of the GS like they did in 2012 and go straight to 2020 with the newly redesigned model. The ES will be a ES. Everything I watched and read about the 2019 ES says it’s better than the one it replaces, but it’s not a competitor to any of the German competition. I just hope Lexus redesigns the GS model lineup to be a 4 door coupé instead of the traditional 3 box design. My 4GS still satisfies me but, I’m getting a itch for more power for my daily driver and have been searching for used BMW 550i xdrives as of lately. The alternative optional would be for me to keep my GS350 AWD and spend $8k on RR racing’s 500hp supercharger kit and a front and rear big brake upgrade. I’m satisfied with most of things the GS does, power is adequate, but I wan’t V8 performance and AWD traction with a rearwheel power bias.
2 other indicator that Lexus isn’t replacing the GS with the ES are in their press material they describe the ES as a entry level premium sedan and they named its main competitors as the Infiniti Q50 and Acura TLX. Next they priced the ES350 at under $40k before destination fee. The price differential between that ES and the LS is $30k plus dollars. That’s a huge leap for someone who wants a car that’s a little bit more special and rare than the run of the mill ES that we all will see everywhere once it goes on sale. I know some of you will argue “optional packages will close that gap” and your right, but only by about $12-15k. The most expensive ES will mostly likely top out at $53-55k. I know Leuxs has some thing special up it’s sleeve I hope it favors the LC500 and has 4 doors. Fingers are crossed with checkbook in the other hand.
I feel like buyers in the GS segment are more well informed that the typical buyer. Either way, anyone who is even slightly informed about this segment will have a hard time paying $50k - $55k for an ES350 when you can get an Audi A6, MB E-Class, BMW 5 Series or maybe even a Jaguar XF for the same price. It's hard to imagine the marketing campaign required by Lexus/Toyota to convince folks that a once Entry Level car known as the ES350 sedan is now on par with the aforementioned brands' offerings or is even on par with the 4GS...!
Last edited by AJLex19; 08-15-18 at 12:57 PM.
08-15-18, 07:45 PM
#183
Lexus Fanatic
Many automakers are replacing RWD vehicles with FWD ones. An example is the Infiniti EX35/EX37/QX50. I loved to drive its last gen RWD version (haven't driven the current gen FWD). There are a number of advantages of FWD over RWD, such as lower weight, less space, better mpg, and probably less cost to manufacture. Audi has shown the world that good driving dynamics can be achieved in FWD vehicles (e.g. A6 is as good as GS in terms of driving dynamics). Now whether Lexus will be able to achieve GS-like driving dynamics with the new ES remains to be seen.
08-16-18, 08:52 AM
#184
Intermediate
The Nissan lineup has been primarily FWD (except the sports cars) while the Infiniti lineup used to be primarily RWD until they introduced the QX60 and now based on the success of the QX60, changed the EX37/QX50 from RWD to FWD. That says a lot, especially since it is Nissan which used to make the clearest distinction between its non-luxury and luxury brand products based on FWD vs. RWD among the big three Japanese automakers (Toyota, Honda, Nissan).
Regarding A6 struggling in sales, here is the comparison of sales figures of GS vs. A6 during 2014-2018. They are comparable and if you have to select a winner, it will be A6. So the FWD A6 has done pretty well in comparison to its rival RWD GS.
Lexus GS sales figures (ref. http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...sales-figures/ ):
2014 22,198
2015 23,117
2016 14,878
2017 7,773
2018 4,158
Audi A6 sales figures (ref. http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/11...sales-figures/ ):
2014 23,941
2015 22,850
2016 18,686
2017 16,304
2018 5,533
Last edited by bb700092; 08-16-18 at 09:03 AM.
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Boomin (08-21-18)
08-16-18, 12:04 PM
#185
Just wanna chime in here. I really don’t think of front wheel drive when I think of the Audi A6. Although there is a base FWD 4 cylinder variant of the A6 sold in the United States, it’s sold in such small numbers that it’s not represenative of the A6 Soley being a FWD car. I don’t have exact numbers in front of me. But I would be willing to bet the FWD 2.0T A6 is less than 9% of the A6 total sales in the U.S. most people go for the rear wheel drive bias AWD aka Quattro 3.0T. The A6 is solid car. I picked the GS over the A6 3.0T for a few reasons. But mostly because I read review articles and watched a bunch of YouTube videos reviews that said the GS handled better than the GS on twisty roads. I do agree that most people don’t buy cars based on their merit in driving dynamics.
The FWD ES doesn’t break any new ground in technology or on styling front in my opinion. It looks like a cross hybrid between the GS and LS. I personally don’t love the droopy rear end, it’s kinda sags downward. Only time will tell, but I feel like there is certainly room for a Lexus sedan in the $60k car segment.
The FWD ES doesn’t break any new ground in technology or on styling front in my opinion. It looks like a cross hybrid between the GS and LS. I personally don’t love the droopy rear end, it’s kinda sags downward. Only time will tell, but I feel like there is certainly room for a Lexus sedan in the $60k car segment.
08-16-18, 12:17 PM
#186
Lexus Champion
Just wanna chime in here. I really don’t think of front wheel drive when I think of the Audi A6. Although there is a base FWD 4 cylinder variant of the A6 sold in the United States, it’s sold in such small numbers that it’s not represenative of the A6 Soley being a FWD car. I don’t have exact numbers in front of me. But I would be willing to bet the FWD 2.0T A6 is less than 9% of the A6 total sales in the U.S. most people go for the rear wheel drive bias AWD aka Quattro 3.0T. The A6 is solid car. I picked the GS over the A6 3.0T for a few reasons. But mostly because I read review articles and watched a bunch of YouTube videos reviews that said the GS handled better than the GS on twisty roads. I do agree that most people don’t buy cars based on their merit in driving dynamics.
The FWD ES doesn’t break any new ground in technology or on styling front in my opinion. It looks like a cross hybrid between the GS and LS. I personally don’t love the droopy rear end, it’s kinda sags downward. Only time will tell, but I feel like there is certainly room for a Lexus sedan in the $60k car segment.
The FWD ES doesn’t break any new ground in technology or on styling front in my opinion. It looks like a cross hybrid between the GS and LS. I personally don’t love the droopy rear end, it’s kinda sags downward. Only time will tell, but I feel like there is certainly room for a Lexus sedan in the $60k car segment.
...the A6 finished last in the most important criterion: driver engagement. Martinez: "The Audi failed to give me any enthusiastic feedback. There was no visceral exhaust note to go with the entertaining speed and no communicative steering either. It just felt like it was going through the motions." Lieberman: "The Audi has Quattro, but it's very nose-heavy. Audi masks this flaw with all-wheel drive and gobs of power, but it's not a good-feeling car to drive. For instance, while not as fast, the Lexus just kills the Audi in feel."
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signdetres (08-16-18)
08-17-18, 03:34 PM
#187
Instructor
WOW, I'm surprised the GS350 beat out those competitors... I meant I love my car and the more I drive it the more I love it, never thought it was a overall better car than a A6 and a 535i.
08-17-18, 06:54 PM
#188
Yup and Motortrend wasn’t the only publication saying awesome things about the 4GS when it was brand new. Even though it lost to the Audi A6 in Car and Driver’s comparison test, they still rated it as the better drivers car when compared to the Audi A6. Their only demerit on the GS’s driving dynamic was it’s bland steering feel and they knocked the GS for having slab sided and boring styling. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...s-gs350-page-2
08-21-18, 06:47 AM
#189
Lexus Champion
FWIW, the latest Car and Driver states that for 2019 the GS F gets minor trim changes, the GS450h is discontinued, and the GS300/350 carry on into 2019 unchanged.
08-21-18, 07:39 AM
#190
This is best news in my opinion if the Car and Drivers sources are accurate. Just like in 2010-11 they pushed the 3GS along for a lil longer while focused on launching the 4GS development for 2013. A 2020 MY launching in mid-late 2019 makes total since to me. If they were planning to discontinue the GS model line they would’ve just pulled the plug all at once versus prolonging it’s death with minor trim updates and carrying it over for one more model year.
The GS has always pioneered the styling language for the Lexus brand. I pray the 5GS will continue this legacy on going more for a high performance niche 4 door coupé style and letting the ES be the run of the mill 3 box sedan design. Audi A7, BMW 8GC and Mercedes CLS/GT4 are all very attractive alternative to their more sedate midsize sedans from their respective brands.
I pray they benchmark the Audi A7/S7 and AMG GT 4 door. If they launch this new 5GS with that competitive 3.5l twin turbo V6 with two stages of tune 350hp/416hp and don’t bother offering a turbo inline 4 this time around they could be on to something. Naturally the hybrid will be a option too, but they need to offer AWD with the hybrid for it to sell reasonably well in the Midwest and Northeast. Also hiding the battery under the trunk floor where the spare tire normally sits and giving it a power hatchback with 60/40 split folding rear seats would be awesome for utilitarian purposes.
One year later they can make a return on their investment cost even more by offering that same twin turbo V8 that’s going into the LC and LS in the GS too. A 600hp AWD GS-F with V8 performance and sexy vibes sounds like a brand halo car to me.
Last edited by highrev6; 08-21-18 at 07:44 AM.
08-21-18, 12:36 PM
#192
Lexus Champion
08-21-18, 05:25 PM
#193
08-21-18, 06:06 PM
#194
Lexus Champion
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