mask0425x

I have a 2016 GS F Sport with 9,250 miles that just started exhibiting some scary behaviour in early October after I've had it for 10 months. The steering feels like it "goes to sleep" randomly when cruising at freeway speeds. Say, I am going 65 mph and freeway starts curving a bit, I gently turn the steering wheel and, for a moment, it feels completely disengaged and disconnected from the wheels - no change of direction, no usual feedback, nothing whatsoever, like it's in a vacuum! This car, unlike my previous 2014 GS F Sport and my dad's 2014 GS (base model), has lane departure warning, PCS+ and the whole suite of electronic safety nannies. Needless, to say, I am quite familiar how GS is supposed to drive and how steering is supposed to act/react with or without those features. The LKA normally does exact opposite - it tightens up the steering and tugs to alert if you are drifting away - nothing that feels like a complete disconnect.

Yet, surely both Lexus dealers where I took my car blamed it on LDW. Both claimed that they could not duplicate the problem, and declared that the car operates as intended (which I, obviously, strongly disagree with!) Calling Lexus customer service, corporate and legal depts has not got me anywhere and has been pure frustration. I told them that I want my car either fixed or lemoned. Yes, I love this car and would keep it *IF* it's safe again. I specifically inquired about replacing the steering control unit as it would eliminate both software and hardware problems. That ECU cannot be reset or flashed as it already has most up to date software on it. Rather than spending about a couple of grand on a loyal repeat customer's car, Lexus did a 180 on their original promise to consider taking the car back. They are also refusing to replace any parts or do any work as the dealers could not find an intermittent problem. Their suggestion was for me to turn off the LKA and steering assist and just keep driving it. My response was that I was neither a guinea pig nor a crash test dummy - they did not care the least bit!!! Another brilliant suggestion from my local Lexus service manager was to keep paying for another two years on the lease and keep it in the garage. This is how Lexus trains their brass now?

Fast forward to this last Saturday... My wife had to take this car for a 5-6 mile errand and made a mistake of going on freeway. When she tried to get off the freeway, the car briefly continued going forward without changing direction or reacting to steering wheel input. The steering did reengage a couple of seconds later letting her avoid crashing into a divider. Scary does not start to describe it... Went straight back to the local dealer who now added one other theory on how to make my car "safe" again: in addition to turning off the steering assist and the lane departure warning (also wanted me to turn off the PCS+ but backed off on that one) they want me to reposition my dash cam that I have just to right and behind the rear view mirror. Their theory as of tonight (Monday) is that the electromagnetic field from the 12 Volt DC micro USB cable (most likely shielded) somehow interferes with the operation of the LKA camera behind the mirror and that in turn makes the steering go to sleep. Never mind that the mirror, LKA/LDW camera and HomeLink buttons are all fed the same 12 VDC from the battery. This is allegedly coming from a Lexus FTS who allegedly saw my car twice (although no one would even give me the FTS' name or contact info) by way of that service manager who suggested not driving the car at all. When I asked if their LDW camera was shielded, the answer was sure, it should be. Otherwise, it'd be easily thrown off by much stronger electromagnetic fields from the high voltage AC power lines or even a plugged cell phone running Waze or multitude of other electric and electronic items. Makes no sense to me...

Sort of/possibly related stuff - while getting some info on the car I've found out some details that were not disclosed when I leased the car from Lexus of Glendale. I was told that it was an exec car driven by their GM. I saw the guy was in his 60s, the car looked absolutely brand new and I figured I was getting a KILLER (pun intended) deal. Now I've found out that this used to be an "event car" that came back from an "event" with $1,259 worth of undisclosed damages before the GM got to drive it. Glendale Lexus CONveniently claims not to have the records on what was damaged and fixed. The body shop that did the work has changed owners and the new bosses purged all the old files. Could it be related to the problems I am having now? I may never know... Just really p*sses me off the type of runaround I'm getting from both Lexus corporate and their dealers without any concern for my family's safety.

Any thoughts, similar experiences or suggestions? Any constructive input would be appreciated.

mask0425x

Hi All, wrote a very elaborate post on my intermittent steering problem which seems to have gotten moderated or just not posted for whatever reason... Anyhow, here is the abridged version.

The steering on my 2016 GS F Sport "goes to sleep" and seemingly disengages when cruising at freeway speeds then "wakes up" and acts normal. Feels like the steering wheel is in a vacuum and is not connected to the wheels at all. Complete opposite of when Lane Keep Assist tugs and tightens the wheel. Started doing it at about 9,000 miles after about one year. No accidents to my knowledge (got an exec demo/former event car). Been to two dealers three times, had FTS look at it and, of course, they could not duplicate the problem. Their suggestion was to turn off the Lane Keep Assist and Steering Assist for the lack of better ideas. They also asked to move my dash cam away from the rear view mirror to avoid interference with the LKA/PCS camera that's already there.

Anyone had anything similar? Losing steering at 65+ mph is not exactly pleasant even if for a second or two! Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated.

MustangSal

Did you drive for the test? If you claim it does it but they claim it doesn’t...sound like you just need to be the one driving.

mask0425x

Yes, I did go on a drive with the tech ~ 5 miles each way and, sure enough, the steering was on its best behavior. Went one way with the LKA/Steering assists on, the other way both off. Still nothing on that test drive. Like I said, its an intermittent problem.

PS: Looks like the mods joined both posts in one thread - thanks!

MustangSal

Well not sure what you expect beyond that. You’re asking them to lemon your car when you can’t prove it does anything wrong. I get it and it must be pretty frustrating. Record t happening maybe? You have a dash cam right?

Im2bz2p345

Hi mask0425x - this sounds like a super scary situation to be in and I can understand your frustration about this issue not being taken serious enough by Lexus corporate and Lexus dealers.

Do you have a camera that you could mount somewhere in the rear of you vehicle or possibly between the front two seats & rear seats? That way you could capture this happening (hopefully in a safer/less crowded area) and show the entire front half of your car (and what is going on out of your front windshield). Get some daytime footage, so things are more clearly seen, then show that to Lexus corporate.

Hopefully that footage is good enough to spark more serious conversations about your issue. Perhaps then Lexus corporate can tell one of your Lexus dealers to "hold" your car for a length time of time and conduct daily tests on your vehicle at highway speeds to replicate the problem.

Just my initial thoughts on how I would proceed,

~ Im2bz2p345

signdetres

If your dashcam has a suction mount, try mounting it to the sunroof so you're able to position it towards the steering wheel and instrument cluster so you can guarantee catching it on camera the next time it occurs. I've had to deal with intermittent problems in the past with two separate vehicles and can understand the frustration and struggle that goes into trying to get your car working properly and more importantly, safely.

In addition, keep taking it in to the dealer and take it to multiple dealers if you have to, even if it's just to get a second opinion (assuming you haven't already done so).

While not safety related, a few years back I leased a Ford Fusion Titanium that had all the safety tech goodies and convenience features. It was an electrical nightmare. Ford refused to buy the car back after an accumulated 68 days out of service which is well beyond CA lemon law requirements (30 days is the req. for CA). Of course, each time the car went into the dealership, it worked perfectly and showed no issues whatsoever but upon leaving the dealership, it would act up without fail (or with fail I suppose). Truly a headache. I posted all the footage of all the various issues all over Ford's social media accounts, YouTube, etc. showing all the issues and sure enough, they ended up agreeing to buy it back, no legal action required on my end (I was just about to get this process started).

My previous car was an Infiniti Q50S that was a nightmare in its own right. This one did have safety issues related to the brakes. Without notice and quite frequently, the brake pedal would just sink to the floor and I would lose almost all braking power. This was a truly scary and not fun experience, especially because I was never able to get the dealership to replicate the issue, even with them sending out corporate engineers to do extended test drives on the vehicle. I began to get so fed up that the next time it occurred was when I was on my way to the office. As soon as I went to slow down for the gate, the pedal sunk and I had to struggle to stop the car. I pulled into the lot and called a tow truck to take it into the dealership because of how unsafe I felt in that car. Low and behold, when it arrived, it was acting just fine and they found nothing wrong. I know that feeling of "I know it seems like I'm mentally deranged, but I promise I'm not." It's a truly awful experience and plain exhausting (this doesn't even come close to accurately describing it). I wish you the best in getting your car fixed and hope Lexus makes it right for you. Keep us posted on the outcome should you reach a resolution!

mask0425x

Sal, it'd be nice if they valued my safety and my life, as well as safety and lives of my family and of those random people who might be in my path when/if that steering quits. A new steering ECU retails for $1,565 plus tax and labor. Yet, not only Lexus wouldn't cover the replacement, they also turned down in writing my offer to pay for the replacement out of pocket. I suppose to Lexus that would mean accepting that Toyota/Lexus aren't perfect. It's all about dollars and cents and avoiding liability at all costs to them, no courtesy or common sense at all!

On a side note, I don't have all that much trust in their factory trained techs at my local dealerships. My previous 2014 GS was in a bad accident (got t-boned by a guy who claimed to have accidentally floored gas on red). Took at least five visits over five five months for them to find that the body shop installed a suspension component upside down and that was *intermittently* causing my headlights to go haywire. The headlight positioning sensor is located behind the rear left wheel exactly where that car got hit, so they knew the problem had to be in that area. It was easier for them to say that they couldn't duplicate the concern, same as now, except it was not nearly as big of a safety issue.

mask0425x

Lm and Sign, thanks to both of you for moving the dash cam idea. I haven't done yet only because I refuse to drive this with other family members in it. We'll be driving my wife's Audi this weekend and then I'll move my dash cam back or install a second one next week. Same concept as president and VP not boarding the same plane for the same flight, lol.

I actually spent about half an hour on the phone on Wednesday with Craig Jennings who used to be a service manager at Woodland Hills Lexus. Great guy! He's now in CO running some Toyota store(s). Unlike the **** at WHL now, he took my concern very seriously (and didn't call me neurotic, at least not to my face). He was the one who originally suggested moving the dash camera back to try to capture the steering failure. My only concern is that so far all of those failures had occurred where fairly minimal input was required which might be hard to capture on video. Don't think I'll be adventurous/stupid enough to be doing "Wheel of Fortune" type of spinning at freeway speeds just to prove that I'm not neurotic.

Have to admit that losing the brakes is scarier than losing steering. That thought did cross my mind - scary indeed! Thanks again for the input.

MustangSal

But last Saturday your wife was driving it on a 5-6 mike errand? Alone?

mask0425x

Yes, she was alone and she absolutely freaked out! She never liked the GS anyway, lol. The previous 5-6 times were all me. The thing is that we both work from home a lot and I can go days without getting on freeway.

drgrant

Is there a way for you (the user) to disable the LKA and all that crap and drive it for awhile? Or is the issue that it turns itself back on every time the car starts up?

I mean, I agree with you- I doubt it is any of that stuff- and it sounds to me like they are making up excuses. I'd be pretty pissed at this point.

Honestly if it was me I would take it out on the highway with the camera running showing the road and the wheel, with audio on, and induce the failure some sunday
morning when few people are on the road. it seems obvious if its happened that many times to you it shouldn't be hard to induce it, despite it being intermittent.

-Mike

mask0425x

Mike, both LKA and steering assist have been turned off (and they stay off). Have not driven much on freeway this way though. As a matter of fact, I've only put about 200 miles on this car since this crap started happening in early October - trying to drive my wife's car whenever possible.

No, absolutely cannot "induce" the loss of steering - it seems to be completely random! Wish I could, then it would probably be easier to convince Lexus to start fixing or replacing something. Their position is that there is no problem as they have not been able to duplicate or witness it.

bclexus

If Lexus runs a diagnostic check on the vehicle and everything checks out okay, and they cannot replicate the problem with or without you - do you think it's realistic to expect them to just start replacing stuff?

dchar

Loss of steering is a weird problem to have since I thought the steering wheel is still mechanically connected to the front wheels unlike a steer-by-wire system found in Infiniti. I thought you were confusing Lane Centering found under LKA, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.