2019 ES looks like our cars :(
04-26-18, 10:09 AM
#31
Lexus Test Driver
Carmaker1 has information from inside the industry that confirms that the 5GS is dead.
President Akio is after profits, rather than a quality car.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...l#post10182906
President Akio is after profits, rather than a quality car.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...l#post10182906
If President Akio is after profits, then hes doing it the wrong way. He should try to keep the GS customers on top of selling the ES. The Lexus ES is a strong sell in the USA and it always will be. However - I predict the Lexus ES will pretty see low volume sales in the EU because it will never stack up with the 5/E. Europeans will just see the ES as a dressed up Toyota from the States, which it is.
My Brother in law is the president of Lexus IT security in Torrance, California and he confirmed to me that the GS is going to be discontinued. Starting this summer they will slowly start pulling all GS related materials from Lexus website as well as pulling all internet related advertising about the GS.
04-26-18, 12:06 PM
#32
I work for a software company. Can’t count how many times we’ve been told something wasn’t profitable, dropped the project or support for a particular OS, just to get endless outcry by customers and a severe beating in the market by the competition over the decision. We then changed our tune and production spun up again. This will be one of numerous stupid moves that will give the competition a leg up and kill Toyota/Lexus profits. If it hurts enough, they will reverse their decision. If not, good by old friend the GS and good by Lexus. I’m not putting up with another FWD. I can live with outdated tech or not being the fastest thing out there. FWD on the other hand just annoys me every minute, so maybe I’ll go to leasing a Euro car and not ever keeping them long enough to deal with issues.
The old addage that buying is cheaper cheaper than leasing doesn’t hold true for cars that take it in the @55 in depreciation, so when Lexus checks out of the market with a decent RWD, I’ll check out the European makers again. Besides, you can lease a Benz for far less than a Lexus anyway. If you’re going to lease, why not drive something you like? You listening Lexus? Doubt it, but you will...
The old addage that buying is cheaper cheaper than leasing doesn’t hold true for cars that take it in the @55 in depreciation, so when Lexus checks out of the market with a decent RWD, I’ll check out the European makers again. Besides, you can lease a Benz for far less than a Lexus anyway. If you’re going to lease, why not drive something you like? You listening Lexus? Doubt it, but you will...
04-26-18, 12:34 PM
#33
It may look like a GS but a GS it is not! I noticed that it is FWD. It won't be the same driving experience as the RWD GS. I am glad I got mine. If I had to get something even close to the GS in the Lexus lineup I would have to go to the LC which is out of range for me. Yes you have the RC's but they don't provide the same luxury accommodations, they are just as expensive, and they are smaller.
04-26-18, 04:38 PM
#35
Lexus Test Driver
Its easy to say because its true. The 7G Lexus ES shares the same platform, engine and drive-train as the Camry/Avalon. Also; features will likely to be similar as well. One shocking detail is that the Avalon has sequential LED turn signals but the Lexus ES don't. The Lexus ES is basically a Camry/Avalon in a suit.
04-26-18, 06:06 PM
#36
A lot of people claim to have "insider" information from Lexus themselves. Just because he has information - its still better to take it with a grain of salt.
If President Akio is after profits, then hes doing it the wrong way. He should try to keep the GS customers on top of selling the ES. The Lexus ES is a strong sell in the USA and it always will be. However - I predict the Lexus ES will pretty see low volume sales in the EU because it will never stack up with the 5/E. Europeans will just see the ES as a dressed up Toyota from the States, which it is.
While I do respect your brother's line of work as a IT security, I don't think its really his department to know what is going to be created or sold. Like mentioned previously, the car could be discounted for a year (gap) and come back redesigned. Its quite possible since the engine, drive-train and platform already exist. The GS is pretty much a Toyota Crown. All they gonna do is redesign it, detune a TTV6, add some flavor, and you'll have a new GS.
If President Akio is after profits, then hes doing it the wrong way. He should try to keep the GS customers on top of selling the ES. The Lexus ES is a strong sell in the USA and it always will be. However - I predict the Lexus ES will pretty see low volume sales in the EU because it will never stack up with the 5/E. Europeans will just see the ES as a dressed up Toyota from the States, which it is.
While I do respect your brother's line of work as a IT security, I don't think its really his department to know what is going to be created or sold. Like mentioned previously, the car could be discounted for a year (gap) and come back redesigned. Its quite possible since the engine, drive-train and platform already exist. The GS is pretty much a Toyota Crown. All they gonna do is redesign it, detune a TTV6, add some flavor, and you'll have a new GS.
By comparison, Ferrari is only worth USD 402 million dollars.
So much for niche vehicles.
Thus, I used to think that TMC was after profits, but now that I read ItzFilyO & bclexus' posts on Ford & GM killing off all their sedans, it must be more than just profits - it must also be consolidation of their range, because too many different models means too great overhead costs - hence they consolidate the range to increase profits [we are now back to square one].
However, now I suspect there is more to it than profits - I am now hunching that they are channelling both money and resources into EV development!
Lexus probably axed GS, so that they can replace it with a GSe full electric vehicle by 2022 to take on Tesla Model S and Porsche Mission e.
GS has very similar dimensions to the Porsche Mission e - the latter with an overall length of 191 inches.
The GSe may be Lexus' very first BEV [battery powered electric vehicle] with 0-60 in about 3 seconds.
There are people who don't like EV's at all.
However, most now accept that it is the future, esp the next 5 to 10 years...
04-26-18, 07:05 PM
#38
Resale isn't going to get much worse than it is. If anything, it just may make them a bit more novel. On the other hand, there will be the lack of a good reliable RWD option which is probably the worst of it. I wouldn't have cared as much, but Infiniti screwed the pooch on anything good they had too, so nothing much left that'll fit the fun to drive and reliable category. Funny part is, Lexus actually got the GS right, then seem to have abandoned the whole sporty thing and then abandoned any success they may have had. I guess it's the sign of our times. Subaru also abandoned turbos on anything but WRX. V6 for them has become a unicorn, yet their 4 cylinder platform mileage hasn't improved, nor has the power. It's just a crappy time to be an auto enthusiast.
04-26-18, 11:35 PM
#39
Lexus Test Driver
Amongst the auto manufacturers, Toyota Motor Corp has the highest net worth [assets less liabilities] in the world with USD 171 billion dollars.
By comparison, Ferrari is only worth USD 402 million dollars.
So much for niche vehicles.
Thus, I used to think that TMC was after profits, but now that I read ItzFilyO & bclexus' posts on Ford & GM killing off all their sedans, it must be more than just profits - it must also be consolidation of their range, because too many different models means too great overhead costs - hence they consolidate the range to increase profits [we are now back to square one].
However, now I suspect there is more to it than profits - I am now hunching that they are channelling both money and resources into EV development!
Lexus probably axed GS, so that they can replace it with a GSe full electric vehicle by 2022 to take on Tesla Model S and Porsche Mission e.
GS has very similar dimensions to the Porsche Mission e - the latter with an overall length of 191 inches.
The GSe may be Lexus' very first BEV [battery powered electric vehicle] with 0-60 in about 3 seconds.
There are people who don't like EV's at all.
However, most now accept that it is the future, esp the next 5 to 10 years...
By comparison, Ferrari is only worth USD 402 million dollars.
So much for niche vehicles.
Thus, I used to think that TMC was after profits, but now that I read ItzFilyO & bclexus' posts on Ford & GM killing off all their sedans, it must be more than just profits - it must also be consolidation of their range, because too many different models means too great overhead costs - hence they consolidate the range to increase profits [we are now back to square one].
However, now I suspect there is more to it than profits - I am now hunching that they are channelling both money and resources into EV development!
Lexus probably axed GS, so that they can replace it with a GSe full electric vehicle by 2022 to take on Tesla Model S and Porsche Mission e.
GS has very similar dimensions to the Porsche Mission e - the latter with an overall length of 191 inches.
The GSe may be Lexus' very first BEV [battery powered electric vehicle] with 0-60 in about 3 seconds.
There are people who don't like EV's at all.
However, most now accept that it is the future, esp the next 5 to 10 years...
This goes to your idea, which is very good. I like the sound of a Lexus GSe (electric), or whatever they want to call it. It'll help them enter the fully electric luxury sedan market to compete with Tesla/Porsche.
^But I'm not 100% sure if Lexus wants to put a "GS" that's electric and its faster performing than its "F" cars. If they do, I expect the electric GS to be middle of the run fast in order to keep prices low and not to mess with its "F" products. Just a guess though.
Yeah. It has to do w/ the times changing. Rumor has it that the next STi is a hybrid with maybe no manual. The STi community is pretty ticked off from those rumors.
04-27-18, 02:05 AM
#40
I still think the 5GS is coming. Like I’ve already mentioned, the platform and engines are already there in the LC and LS, so it would be easy for Lexus to keep the GS going. Besides, the ES is more of a comfortable alternative to the IS and other competitors like the 3-series, C-class, and A4, especially regarding price. Lexus would be crazy to think this new ES can compete with the 5-series, E-Class, and A6 with Toyota underpinnings that cant compete in driving dynamics and performance.
Anyone notice that the didn’t put any new powertrains in this new ES? I think they are saving it for release in the 5GS. GS might go without production for a year, like between 3GS and 4GS, but they can’t lose all of their GS peeps (a significant amount of people even though less than ES peeps).
My opinion of this new ES...it’s a nice in styling inside and out, resembling a mini version of redesigned LS but with yesterday powertrains. A huge improvement over the current gen ES. The F-Sport version is a joke since no one expects any sportiness when they buy an ES, but I guess Lexus wants people to be able to get an F-Sport version of all their cars.
Anyone notice that the didn’t put any new powertrains in this new ES? I think they are saving it for release in the 5GS. GS might go without production for a year, like between 3GS and 4GS, but they can’t lose all of their GS peeps (a significant amount of people even though less than ES peeps).
My opinion of this new ES...it’s a nice in styling inside and out, resembling a mini version of redesigned LS but with yesterday powertrains. A huge improvement over the current gen ES. The F-Sport version is a joke since no one expects any sportiness when they buy an ES, but I guess Lexus wants people to be able to get an F-Sport version of all their cars.
I agree that this ES is nice, but not a GS replacement. The front axle to dash ratio is too short, unlike current FWD Volvo’s, giving the ES a unflattering economy car like look when you start to study the design too long. Next thing I noticed is Lexus was very specific to make sure they rated this engine as exactly 1hp less then the Lexus 3GS 350 which had 303hp wayback in 2007. With the ES having powertrain choices that mirrors the Avalons down to a tee, this will be a total turnoff to some luxury car buyer searching for more unique powertrains.
I’m aware of one of our long time posters saying the GS is dead because he has a inside guy who revealed to him it’s dead. Not to downplay the gentleman’s sources, but until Toyota announces something is being discountinued we have to tread softly. From personal experience of working with the company over the years I know this company is very tight lipped and secretive about future product unveils. I have had my cell phone confiscated during private showing of products not ready to launch for 6 months. You rarely see leaked photos of future Toyota products like you so often see with German brands. I can vouch Toyota shares information amongst it’s own employees and affiliates on a need to know basis.
Final note, no one and I mean no one knew that Ford Motor Co. was going to debut the 2017 GT supercar up until it pulled on to the stage at the 2016 Detroit Autoshow. That was such a well kept secret within the company, if I remember correctly top executives reported they didn’t even know about it until just weeks before it’s debut. If this isn’t a indicator that company’s can fly under a radar with product development than I don’t know what is. Maybe Lexus intends to stop selling the GS in the U.K. does that mean they won’t continue selling it in their home market, China, Middle East, U.S. and Australia. Ford’s going to stop selling sedans here in the U.S. but they aren’t done with small cars in foreign markets. They have a plethora of cars that will be sold in Asia, South America and Europe.
04-27-18, 07:04 AM
#42
Saw one on the interstate today (all the logos were taped up). I work in Georgetown, KY where they make the new ES, it looks just like the Avalon, not sure if I am a fan of the back, but the rest of it looks good.
04-27-18, 10:13 AM
#43
Lexus Test Driver
I agree that this ES is nice, but not a GS replacement. The front axle to dash ratio is too short, unlike current FWD Volvo’s, giving the ES a unflattering economy car like look when you start to study the design too long. Next thing I noticed is Lexus was very specific to make sure they rated this engine as exactly 1hp less then the Lexus 3GS 350 which had 303hp wayback in 2007. With the ES having powertrain choices that mirrors the Avalons down to a tee, this will be a total turnoff to some luxury car buyer searching for more unique powertrains.
I’m aware of one of our long time posters saying the GS is dead because he has a inside guy who revealed to him it’s dead. Not to downplay the gentleman’s sources, but until Toyota announces something is being discountinued we have to tread softly. From personal experience of working with the company over the years I know this company is very tight lipped and secretive about future product unveils. I have had my cell phone confiscated during private showing of products not ready to launch for 6 months. You rarely see leaked photos of future Toyota products like you so often see with German brands. I can vouch Toyota shares information amongst it’s own employees and affiliates on a need to know basis.
Final note, no one and I mean no one knew that Ford Motor Co. was going to debut the 2017 GT supercar up until it pulled on to the stage at the 2016 Detroit Autoshow. That was such a well kept secret within the company, if I remember correctly top executives reported they didn’t even know about it until just weeks before it’s debut. If this isn’t a indicator that company’s can fly under a radar with product development than I don’t know what is. Maybe Lexus intends to stop selling the GS in the U.K. does that mean they won’t continue selling it in their home market, China, Middle East, U.S. and Australia. Ford’s going to stop selling sedans here in the U.S. but they aren’t done with small cars in foreign markets. They have a plethora of cars that will be sold in Asia, South America and Europe.
I’m aware of one of our long time posters saying the GS is dead because he has a inside guy who revealed to him it’s dead. Not to downplay the gentleman’s sources, but until Toyota announces something is being discountinued we have to tread softly. From personal experience of working with the company over the years I know this company is very tight lipped and secretive about future product unveils. I have had my cell phone confiscated during private showing of products not ready to launch for 6 months. You rarely see leaked photos of future Toyota products like you so often see with German brands. I can vouch Toyota shares information amongst it’s own employees and affiliates on a need to know basis.
Final note, no one and I mean no one knew that Ford Motor Co. was going to debut the 2017 GT supercar up until it pulled on to the stage at the 2016 Detroit Autoshow. That was such a well kept secret within the company, if I remember correctly top executives reported they didn’t even know about it until just weeks before it’s debut. If this isn’t a indicator that company’s can fly under a radar with product development than I don’t know what is. Maybe Lexus intends to stop selling the GS in the U.K. does that mean they won’t continue selling it in their home market, China, Middle East, U.S. and Australia. Ford’s going to stop selling sedans here in the U.S. but they aren’t done with small cars in foreign markets. They have a plethora of cars that will be sold in Asia, South America and Europe.
I agree that there will be luxury buyers that will be turned off by the idea that the Lexus ES shares the same engine and power as the Camry/Avalon. It'll be hard to shake that fact. For me, I would never buy a Lexus ES because it shares too much with a Camry/Avalon.
I said that earlier as well. Even if he has sources, still take it with a grain of salt. Big companies are usually tight-lips about products and will try to prevent leaks. I have had my fair share of meetings as well regarding highly classified products. Sometimes - companies forces the employees who are close to the product or project to sign a form saying you will not disclose content or risk termination.
Definitely possible for the Lexus GS to return as a car for specific markets, like the Lexus CT. Lexus doesn't sell the CT in America. Lexus could definitely not sell the GS in the UK and let the ES handle the UK market while the GS stays in the States.
04-27-18, 11:42 AM
#45
Lexus Test Driver
The GS died for this. 
The new CT looks great by the way, too bad we don't get this in US anymore. They shoulda slapped a 2.0 turbo engine on it and get rid of the CVT bull and make it a hot hatch cause the old engine was barely faster than my skateboard.
The new CT looks great by the way, too bad we don't get this in US anymore. They shoulda slapped a 2.0 turbo engine on it and get rid of the CVT bull and make it a hot hatch cause the old engine was barely faster than my skateboard.