HontoKuro

It's being a full month now since I purchased my L/Certified 2015 GS F-Sport (AWD) and albeit not very long time of ownership period to truly gauge an overall opinion on my GS. However ,I wanted to approach this month review from a slightly different angle and share my thoughts on this GS compared to any of my former and current BMW's. Some background before I dive into all the juicy details, you see this is my 1st entry into the Lexus brand and had little to no interest or opinion on Lexus until I was in the market for a used 4 door sport luxury sedan. Over the last 20 years I've owned nothing but BMW's from 3 series, 5 series, GT and even SAV's all ranging in years from early 2000's up to more recently 2012+ and beyond models. Throughout my research and eventual purchase of my GS, over the last month I began to compare my likes and dislikes of this GS to what BMW offered or doesn't. Below I copied and pasted my initial impressions comments I posted when I joined this forum in the roll call section but wanted to elaborate a bit more now that I've had this car for a few weeks and add some additional commentary under the "good/bad/ugly"sections. The following comments and thoughts are my own opinion and simply wanted to compare things such as features, driving characteristics, fit and finish, overall features and misc things compared to Germans competitors like BMW and not so much a head to head comparison. I'd love to hear your thoughts, opinions and comments and tell me what you all think. Maybe there is other former or current German vehicle owners that can relate, agree or maybe even disagree on some of these opinions.

Keep in mind this is not a new car but rather an off lease car I purchased with just under 35k miles, so take it for what its worth.

The Good

- Interior fit and finish. I know I mentioned this in my initial impressions, but overall I think Lexus choice of materials and craftsmanship is very comparable if not slightly better than even my previously loaded $90k BMW. No noise, creeks or rattling parts, no cheap hard plastics that I could find, it's simply a solid build and overall nice cabin except for some minor things that annoy me (see the bad)
- 6 speed transmission, has very smooth shifts and relatively quick. Thought I miss the extra 2 gears compared to the RWD but honestly never thought I made a bad decision by going AWD instead.
- Steering. I actually have some real road feedback and doesn't feel like a video game steering wheel or artificial.
- Really solid cabin climate control. It gets very quick heat or cold A/C air almost instantly. One gripe I was always annoyed on most of my BMW's was how long it took before I actually felt the hot air pushed out from the vents or cool air in the cabin. With this Lexus it's almost instant heat or cool A/C air.
- Very quiet maybe too quiet but damn throw into Sport+ mode and everything changes especially with proper throttle and in higher RPM's and why I love driving this GS so far.
- No turbos, no superchargers, no artificial horsepower just some good old naturally aspirate V6 engine. Sure would I have liked more power and torque on the low end? Yes, but compared to my other older BMW's liike the e46 and e39 versions (both also naturally aspirated i6 engines) I had nothing but issues with the turbos on BMW's with either an i4 turbo engine but especially the TT v8 engines (more on this below).
- I really love the design and finish F-Sport 19" stock wheels, the first thing I usually do in all my cars is I sell my OEM wheels (see bullet below) and get aftermarket wheels but may actually keep these for winter usage and get a new set for my summer set or vice-versa.
- For once I actually like the fact that the AWD version of this car has non-staggered wheels. Virtually all my BMW's had staggered wheels which is a great advantage in terms of handling and turning but the one thing I just loathed was the high maintenance costs associated with running a staggered setup. When it came to replacing the rear tires and not being able to rotate the tires I cant tell you how much I would spend on tires every other year, very costly in the long run. So glad I am back to normal setup on the GS.
- Speaking of wheels, not sure how good these GS OEM wheels are in terms of build quality and whether or not they prone to cracks, slow leaks, easy curb damage etc.. but in my BMW's they were so sensitive and if I came across even a small pothole they would easily crack and/or bend hence why I would get rid of them. Chicago is a tough area with low profile tires and nice rims, it's almost inevitable that you will damage rims. TBD on this assessment.
- Reliability. From what I have read and researched and perhaps main reason why I decided on the Lexus brand and in particular this model and year was the #1 reliability scores and remarks. Most if not all online reviews including reading through these forums if ever did I see or hear of any reliability or other major mechanical or engine issues. Having a drama free vehicle was very important to me during my buying decision. Obviously only time will tell on this purchase but sadly I couldn't say that statement with most of my BMW's especially the more modern ones. I still own a 2002 325ci that is going strong with almost 200k miles on it and until she decides to go it is still being used daily and love that BMW. In the other hand my other previous 2012+ year model BMW's are terrible in terms of reliability with nothing but engine and/or electronics issues especially when they would hit the 50k mark. BMW's 4 and 8 cylinder engines in my opinion are their most unreliable engines and don't get me started on the M variety engines and high maintenance costs. I will never ever purchase another BMW vehicle with these engines in them. Their true bread and butter and bullet proof engines are their inline 6 which are becoming more and more difficult to find today as most manufactures shift to noisy and whiny turbo 4 cylinder engines.
- Ride. Overall ride comfort and characteristics of this GS was probably the most surprising aspect of the Lexus brand to me especially during my test drive. Although it doesn't quite match the level of BMW in overall handing and balance dynamics department, it's very close.In fact I'd say it has superb steering and very confident in its handling ability especially when I throw it around the corners or highway. It's a very exciting car and dare I say a fun 4 door sedan to drive daily. I simply enjoy the hell out of driving weather its casual city driving or on the highway. Something I didn't think I would honestly say, in fact it's probably becoming my best favorite 4 door sports sedan I've owned since my 2003 530i (E39)...so far.
- Sound System. Although I don't have the ML system, for a stock OEM system I have to say it sounds very good. It doesn't have the low end or depth I'd like but as long as you don't crank it too high, it maintains a very good clean and crisp sound. I just wish they had a bigger amp or DSP whatever they are using to drive all the speakers but overall I'd say is a very solid OEM sound system. I may eventually upgrade all the speakers and add a sub but very content with the stock system for now.

The BAD: Let's talk about some small things that I find surprising Lexus doesn't do better than the Germans or at least in this GS version.

- Yes I praise and love the interiors fit and finish quality but honestly, even for a 2015 Lexus model, it looks very outdated. To be fully honest I think it's very boring and nothing exciting about the instrument panel and overall dash layout, it's "Meh" at best. Sure it's well appointed and does the job but doesn't have that wow factor or strike me as a "sports luxury cabin" I was expecting from Lexus. And this coming from a BMW owner who many would say many of their interiors look the same throughout the years but here's the thing, BMW has a formula and it has worked for a reason, in fact many manufactures have copied their designs such as the scroll wheels, buttons and control layouts, iDrive knockoff systems,touchscreen/gestures etc. over the years and are hands down one of the best dash and center console designs today especially from the drivers seating position. They are many practical buttons and easy to reach and more importantly love the use of their trademark AMBER lightning at night which is easy on the eyes and also prevents eye strain, plus I had the ability to switch from day (white) and night (amber) driving lightning mode on the gauges or automatically switch for me.
- Lexus simply doesn't have the "BMW trademark" I have come to know and love which is a very driver centric sport luxury car with great seating position and access to everything without trying to fumble where things are at. Although the GS seating position is good with great visibility but unless you've driving in a BMW its not the same in the Lexus GS. Any current or former owners will understand or know what I mean here, it's hard to explain this one.
- The Mouse- Really? More on that later but really Lexus?
- Analog clock. Sorry but not a fan of this design touch, sure it's classy looking and maybe cool to others, but looks so out of place in this interior and again adds to the already outdated dash.
- One of the great features I love and miss from my BMW's are the pin hole map led lights throughout the cabin including the rear. Very subtle touch but this makes a huge difference at night in the overall cabin atmosphere and gives it a very luxurious look inside at night. The only one I could find in the GS is under the rear view mirror. That is it and is pointing to an area in the center console that is already lit by surrounding buttons. Useless light.
- Overall interior ambient lightning is average at best compared to my BMW. I think this is where Lexus fails miserably compared to the Germans. Sure there are interior ambient lights everywhere in the door sills, the foot cabins, door handles, etc...but the minute you put the car in drive, they dim so low you can't even tell they are on there unless you are in a pitch black environment and squint your eyes to see the lighting throughout. Going back to my point above, this would make a huge difference inside during night driving and your guests in the rear seat too.
- Steering wheel stalks. This is the one part I feel they went to their Toyota bin parts and put together the cheapest crap they could find and throw it inside the Lexus steering wheel. Not only are they cheap feeling, but they don't even light up at night and can't tell what the buttons or scrolls wheels do. My modern BMW's all have built in lighting inside the stocks thus can see at night the controls and all have this amazing solid build touch and feel when using simple things like turn signals or changing wiper sensitivity or even cruise control settings.
- Another area I feel Lexus does worse or better yet is weaker than BMW is the lack of high definition back up camera and lack of a 360 surround camera. Even my much older 2012 5 series has a much brighter and crisper in HD resolution back up camera with surround views and hell even dual front cameras. The Lexus looks on the other hand look like a 480i resolution camera. This is not a Camry its a Lexus, why are they resorting to non high resolution cameras and on that huge 12" screen as it only makes the image in that poor resolution look worse.
- No damn steering wheel controls for tuning or doing basic things like changing radio stations. Yes, I know I can change my presets only, but its very annoying I can't even do basics such as to change or control basic radio functions. I can't tell you how many times I accidentally pressed the up and down arrows on the wheel thinking it would tune to a different track or station up/down only to find out it changes my source and then have to go all the way back and find the correct source. BMW has the best wheel controls and again ease of use to do simple tasks rather than relying all the time on the radio buttons only. Hands down BMW excels here and I miss the scroll wheel function I wish Lexus had.
- Small but annoying quirk are the outside windshield wipers. They are exposed and not concealed under the hood. It just looks cheap and like a design afterthought and not try to tuck them in out of sight and the passenger one you can't even lift up to wipe or clean the inside.
- I wish they could offer the same seating adjustments for the passenger seat as all of my modern BMW's did. Again feel they cheapened out here.
- No Apple or Android play support. Granted BMW only offers Apple's Play but this is disappointing that they don't offer either option.

The UGLY -Worst aspects of the GS I just don't think anyone will ever convince me of otherwise or will grow out of not liking.

- Let me cut to the chase. The "Infotainment" system. Two words: HOT GARBAGE. Coming from BMW's phenomenal iDrive system, you know what...I won't even go there I will be nice. That is all I have to say on this one.
- Incandescent light bulbs usage on a 2015 car that once costed $60k+ new? Joke really. Look at what Audi, BMW, Mercedes etc..all their cars even basic entry cars have LED's or at least have an option to upgrade to full LED or is standard in the same class that this GS is going up against. Yes, I know I can upgrade but nothing like factory design and made LED lights.
- I will say it again. The heated steering wheel. This may as well be a non offered feature, its worthless.



Below are comments from my 1st welcome to the forum post.
Initial Positive Impressions
* V6 engine; wish it had more power, but it's quick enough and love the sound it produces especially in Sport+ mode.
* Speaking of Sport+, in this mode this makes the car the closest thing to any of my previous and current BMW's I own and that is great.
* The interiors fit and finish and overall materials are excellent and soft touch just about everywhere. Not as driver centric but very good and clean layout.
* Overall great driving dynamics and handling which I wasn't expecting and one of the major factors in my decision to purchase this vehicle.
* Trunk space bigger than I expected, then again I come from BMW's.
* Very comfortable and quiet ride but with very sporty elements which is what I wanted in a sports luxury sedan. Sexy, classy yet sophisticated without standing out.
* Reminded me allot of my 2003 BMW E39 M-Sport. Very understated but balanced, well engineered and amazing V6 engine.


Initial Negative Impressions:
* Coming from BMW's phenomenal and easy to use iDrive system, I feel like I went back 15 years with this Lexus system. In fact it's the worst "infotainment" system I have ever used, period. I almost didn't buy the Lexus for this reason alone. BMW iDrive is 1000000000x better and so ahead of Lexus in this area which I found to be very surprising coming from a such advanced technology company in Japan. The mouse thing cursor thing is just worst invention and way to use this system in my humble opinion.
* Backup camera resolution is terrible compared to my BMW's high HD resolution view, Lexus camera looks like 480p resolution. Is there a way I can upgrade or retrofit this to an HD version?
* No Surround 360 or front cameras? I miss this allot and coming from BMW I didn't think I would miss these cool features but it's one of those features once you have it and then you don't, it's almost a must have.
* I don't know if I have a defective heated steering wheel , but I noticed it only heats the side grip areas? All of my BMW's have full on heat throughout entire steering wheel and get really warm and very consistent heat.
* Stupid hump in the middle of the drivers side. What in the world is this? Luckily it doesn't intrude or get in my way but just looks very odd.
* No soft close doors (nice to have again but not a big deal)
* HUD. I had this in my 5 series too, but I understand these are very difficult to come by and not many opted for this option.
* No Radar Cruise Control, but it's my understanding this was also an option.
* Where's the A/C button?

Stewart350

Do you see yourself keeping your lexus for a long time? My personal opinion on the idrive id that it sucks about the same as on my f sport. Unfortunately i haven't found a modern infotainment system i liked. Much like yours, that is my personal opinion. I do still love my 05 Zhp. BMW used to build great cars. Owning both a lexus and bmw allows you to have the best of both worlds.

Jtkotze

"Small but annoying quirk are the outside windshield wipers. They are exposed and not concealed under the hood. It just looks cheap and like a design afterthought and not try to tuck them in out of sight and the passenger one you can't even lift up to wipe or clean the inside."

mmmmm... perhaps you have the wipers on snow mode. Mine is hidden under the hood. The slick out and in. You can stand by the large blade and push the arm in under the hood. It will click. once in normal position though you cant raise then to clean the windshield... You need to click them out again then you can raise them...

bob256k

Dude thanks for this honest article!! I have never owned a BMW, so it's great to hear what's good and bad between BMW and Lexus from someone who has owned several. Plus your info that the inline 6 from BMW is the most reliable engine is great info to add to the feedback one already heard from others
My co-worker was looking for a used BMW and as I tagged adding in his search I heard the same thing; he eventually got a 2000s m3 with a manual, a unicorn! If I'm ever looking for a BMW I'll probably get the same car or something NA from them.

Have you sent your feedback to Lexus?

highrev6

JDR76

Nice read.

As to your negatives, I cannot agree about the dash. I still think it's a fantastic design and doesn't look outdated at all. Easily one of my favorite parts of the car. I love the huge screen, the classy clock, and the bright, crisp clear gauges.

I do agree with your comments about ambient lighting and the lack of illumination on the steering wheel stalks.

Not sure I understand about the windshield wipers. Mine are recessed quite low behind the hood, and if I want to pull them up to clean under them, I pop them into winter mode and they both lift up.

I don't really get the angst that so many feel on the navigation system. I fully admit that others do it better, but it always does exactly what I need it to do.

I hope you keep enjoying your GS. They are really great cars.

AlexNY

lexus's interior is the sole reason i went for a mercedes for my current car instead of a lexus rc, is, or gs. at the time i leased my current c class, it had a better looking interior than any of the lexus at the time (early 2016). even their flagship LS had a boring interior.

BMW is another brand that they need re-designs. their interiors are pretty outdated as well. Specially the 3/4 series, my gawd the toyota avalon has a better interior than these!

obviously this only applies for new cars.

since i'm fishing for a CPO car now, i gotta get me a lexus GS350. but man, i cannot shake off at the fact the GS interior looks cheap as hell compared to benz.

HontoKuro

Hey Stewart that is the plan to keep this Lexus for a while and one of the main reasons I went into this brand. BMW's iDrive system are the best from around 2010+ (CiC iDrive) through today which is I believe around generation v7.0 at this point (NBT Evo iDrive) so they've had many generations to perfect this system. It's super easy to operate, the scroll wheel is arguably the best in the industry (highly praised and often copied and imitated) and the GUI is very fluid, super fast with no lag and easy to navigate around. Sure Audi and Mercedes and other have come with their own newer version in the last couple of years but BMW has always being the standard in how to properly integrate an infotainment system. I think they nailed it. Again I am comparing the vast differences between the current Lexus infotainment and coming from a BMW iDrive system.
And yes I do have best of both worlds at the moment and hope to keep it that way until all my BMW crap out and if Lexus lives up to the expectations, may even consider going to Lexus exclusively at some point IF they can improve in allot of these areas especially in the Technology side of things.

azipod

Great review. I've also had many BMWs in the past. At best, it's always a love/hate relationship. The BMWs are wonderful machines.... but they can be outright scary when it comes to its reliability and maintenance.... need I say electric gremlins? It's literally a $1,000 bill minimum each time the car goes into the dealer. With a Lexus (or any Toyota product for that matter), there are no worries. Everything is reliable and everything just works, every time.

HontoKuro

I don't blame you but I think Lexus is clearly looking at the their German and Volvo counterparts in what they are doing lately. For example look at Audi, Benz and all new 2019 BMW design language are doing to their interiors, very sexy and classy depending model but I think they are killing Lexus at the moment in this area. Although to be fair to Lexus I am starting to see allot of their new interior changes on 2019 models and their new language design are looking much better but still think they are nowhere near as close to say the new Benz interiors. I also don't understand why they continue to use that awful touchpad and/or mouse despite the universal outcry from owners and virtually all car reviewer experts knocking it year in and out. I am so shocked a terrible GUI and infotainment system is coming from Lexus Japan of all places. It has the worst in car entertainment system in the auto industry. Period. My friends 2016 Chevy Cruze has a 100x better infotainment system and had Android and Apple Play and better than anything coming out Lexus. Just cause they throw a huge 12" display doesn't make it better or address the main problem. I recently test drove a 2018 RX 350 as my wife is potentially looking to get an SUV/Crossover and when she threw into reverse the backup camera on that car was terrible looking and very pixelated and with a ghosty image. Thinking the lens was dirty I went back to wipe it down came and she it back into reverse and the camera to my surprise (well not really) looked like it had 320x320 resolution on an almost $59k "loaded" RX, it was very bad I mean terrible looking rear camera image. Hell that 2018 RX 350 rear camera made the GS's camera look amazing in comparison. Ouch.

e60bmw

iTrader: (1)

Frankly for me the relaibility outweighs heavily any negatives that I may have with the GS. I would't want to go back to the headaches I had with my bimmers. I installed a carplay headunit in my LS which works great. I don't really mind the info system in the GS, I just use it for basic things, I don't really use the GPS. I mainly use the XM radio and my ipod control which it works fine for me for. The new cars like benz may have really nice interiors but then again its much more money than I spent on this. I would love to have a S class but I'm really happy with my GS. Maybe when the 2014+ style drops in price more I may add one. Keep in mind too I think I had read a while back about a carplay module to add. So you may eventually be able to add in a updated carplay like module that lets you see it via the screen which would be cool. Beatsonic also sells a mirroring device.

HontoKuro

I would agree 100% with you on this statement and the #1 reason I switched to Lexus brand and give it a try. There are certainly trade-offs and lots of compromises I had to make prior to moving to Lexus that I can live without but not going to lie either there are days when I take my GS out for spin that makes me miss the much nicer features and perks of BMW offerings. But agree nonetheless I don't want to go back to service bay again which lately was the problem as it seemed I was spending more time in the service shop than the road in one of BMW's and eventually sold it and let someone else deal with that headache. I look forward to more driving and hopefully good years with this GS.

e60bmw

iTrader: (1)

Its funny what you said about potholes with them though. I had so many punctured tires and bent rims it was crazy. It seems like I was always having to pair/patch them. I had some jobs that cost me $2500 on my 5 series. I had a oilpan leak, along with a transmission leak, that was really rough.

Im2bz2p345

Love reading posts such as these - you definitely put a lot of thought into it.

Great to read the experience of owning a 4GS Lexus in comparison to several other BMW's (mainly sedans) over the years.

It's really hard to find a "perfect" vehicle, but I hope you continue to enjoy the "good" from 4GS as I feel it overlooks a lot of the negatives.

~ Im2bz2p345

Stewart350

Thanks HontoKuro for the insight. The newest Bmw I have ever owned was my old 2007 550i M Sport. I hated the idrive sytem in it. It wasn't that bad, but it wasn't that good either. I never had any major issues with it. I'd still have it now but, my ex was in an accident and it was a total loss. That was a great car to drive. Driving the Gs reminds me of it. If only it had the power.....My fiancee is looking to trade in her RX, maybe we will take a look at a X5.