salimshah

On the land and in the air, BMW can be a source of thrill. The drive was so boring that the driver fell asleep.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/201...ia-zw-orig.cnn

Salim

6speediroc

I almost bought a 535xit (wagon)..but didn't for these exact reasons..and the interior was horrible compared to my 12yr old 2002 Sportcross I had at the time.

azipod

Ahhhh.... I miss my E39 540i too. That thing was solid. The trust from the V8 made it a beast! Present day, with the GS, I still sometimes compare it back to the 540i ..... in the sense that Ise the 540i as the baseline of what a sports sedan should be.... What I find most interesting is that the E39 came out 20-years ago! It still makes a strong statement today!

e60bmw

iTrader: (1)

I'm not really sure, I haven't had any issues so far.

M3to4GS

I can chime in here. I still own an E93 M3 and yes, it's a completely different experience. In particular, the S65 is a bespoke motor only to be placed in the E9X series ///M cars. While my GS is spacious, comfortable, and smooth, driving an M (or BMW in any case) is meant to be a more connected driving experience. Considering that this experience is subjective, it's hard to say or write about since everyone has a very different interpretation of "the ultimate driving machine". My M is an amazing vehicle...NA V8, 8 ITBs, 8300 RPM redline is pure bliss. BMW and Lexus exist in two different worlds, achieving success in different areas. My GS in no way provides anything near the same experience as any BMW I have ever driven, new (F8X, F10, F3X) or old (E39, E9X, Z3/4M).

Maintenance is what you'd expect from a high-strung track tool. It is expensive, but if it were cheap, everyone would have one. I know some people have had bad experiences, but its a German car with a history of performance first, then luxury and reliability, it's all in their heritage. Compared to Toyota/Lexus, which is nearly the exact opposite. Thus, another reason for the unfair comparison.

Comfort + Daily Drive-ability: Lexus
Pure Driving Experience + Dual-Duty (daily/track): BMW

rtalnique

drgrant

I love BMW/Audi/MB's but it's too bad none of them can figure out how to make a car that isn't basically always on the edge of a repair bill waiting to happen.

-Mike

drgrant

In some cases its more than just economic, its also sanity. Even if someone is mr moneybags having a (whatever high brow overrated brand here) blow up/die and leave you stranded
somewhere is pretty much going to ruin your day, even if money is no object. It's not like BMW or whoever is going to just show up with another one and tow away the broken one in an hour or
less. And even if they did, it would still suck.

Worst part is most of the failures are not like things that you can easily prevent/avoid even with hyperactive PM. Otherwise people would just put up with it and throw away the bad parts at regular
intervals.

-Mike

Htony

Those cars are designed using leading technology, safety emphasis, over engineered, more precision engineered. IMO, this is the reason.
If Lexus were built like them it'd be about same. Our family members drive them fully aware of it. Not all of them are unreliable either. In the case of mine
logging ~40K miles I had 3 oil changes, cabin air filter change once. No other issues.

sam430

iTrader: (10)

I loved the BMW I had. I also loved that it taught me how to fix cars. Now I'm just too lazy to even mod so I pick a Lexus for that; it's more than capable on the public road.

rj4510

mikesrx350

this thread is entertaining.

total ownership experience that goes beyond reliability issues

cutting edge powertrains
technology
nav interface
seating postion
50/50 weight balance in rain / snow and dry never an issue
design of headrests and seats
solidity and ridgity of structure
performance/economical with efficiency



etc etc. etc..
that's what makes them special,

rj4510

The bolded sections are where things tend to go really bad. Not sure if I'd say that makes them special to drive. it definitely makes them especially problematic and expensive. Personally not all that impressed with turbos, mappings, etc. My last BMW had none of that and was a blast, so long as you were driving around with your hair on fire. That car SUCKED at slow speeds. It was kidney punch city all day, unless you were flying around fast enough to smoothen things out.

Toyota/Lexus can do all others on the list just fine. Nav interface is debatable, though the fact that you can't enter and address while moving is just obnoxious. Sometimes we have to change an address on the fly. Don't need the nanny telling me I can't. If there's anything that makes me one to take a 12 gauge to the navi, it's this!...Different topic.....

drgrant

Lol, no it wouldn't, because I refuse to believe that Lexus would bother making something that unreliable. That's not characteristic of the brand/company at all.

I'd buy into the engineering argument if these companies had a list of stuff you would systematically replace at certain intervals to forestall the failures. Most of the "tech" in these cars is hardly new, either. All 3 of them have made cars on age-mature platforms and still produced stuff that fails way too much for its own good. It's quite obvious that they bank on throwaway culture and badge vanity, although even all 3 of the aforementioned german badges come out looking like pious saints compared to say range rover or jaguar.

Of course whats also weird is once in a blue moon all of these companies accidentally produce something that actually lasts, for example, BMW 3 or 5 series owners don't grouse nearly as much as M owners do, not by a long shot. Might have something to do with the volume of production driving out obvious problems vs time and BMW not wanting to absorb that kind of liability. It's easy to pretend a flaw doesn't exist in an M3 or M4 when not that many of the cars exist, its a lot harder to say the same for a 3 or 5 series when there's an exponentially greater pool of cars in service... or other classic examples, sometimes you see lots of old benzes still on the road. That means that at least within that one product line, the cars weren't junk, if people were willing to keep them on the road.

-Mike

AJLex19

The people I know who exclusively buy BMW's are those looking for prestige, looks, power and handling in an "everyday" kinda car..these are their primary priorities over reliability and longevity. Even the attention that a shiny new BMW gets trumps the Lexus in my part of town bc its a town where people like to get noticed.

Some folks in my circle wanted a BMW because of all the goodies and aftermarket stuff they can do with it - and the fact that it may be unreliable has no bearing on their desire to have one. Others who I know buy it just to lease for a few years or buy it CPO and then get rid of it and start the ownership experience again on a newer version (often avoiding the "reliability" question entirely).