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The people I know who exclusively buy BMW's are those looking for prestige, looks, power and handling in an "everyday" kinda car..these are their primary priorities over reliability and longevity. Even the attention that a shiny new BMW gets trumps the Lexus in my part of town bc its a town where people like to get noticed.
Some folks in my circle wanted a BMW because of all the goodies and aftermarket stuff they can do with it - and the fact that it may be unreliable has no bearing on their desire to have one. Others who I know buy it just to lease for a few years or buy it CPO and then get rid of it and start the ownership experience again on a newer version (often avoiding the "reliability" question entirely).
Now if Lexus released something like the new M8 Gran Coupe... mmmm...
Hold your horses... that's the concept. BMW is no Lexus when it comes to bringing the concept car to life. The 2-door 8-series saw its fair share of changes in going from concept to production.
True, not arguing that. Just saying if it looks anything like the concept, it'll be a sweet looking ride. Not talking reliability here of course because the 13' 535iX I have is great but spends most of its time hanging around with its friends at the service center.
True, not arguing that. Just saying if it looks anything like the concept, it'll be a sweet looking ride. Not talking reliability here of course because the 13' 535iX I have is great but spends most of its time hanging around with its friends at the service center.
It'll be a stunner either way, just won't look exactly like what they're teasing to us but I agree with you. I really want Lexus to release a Gran Coupe of their own (and I really want it to be the next gen GS hehe).
Is Driving BMW that fun ? I own 2014 GS and never drove any BMW.
In the thread "First time Lexus owner - Certified 2017 GS350", User: HontoKuro said that "It's No BMW in terms of its driving dynamics and handling".
This is nonsense.
This person doesn't know much about driving cars, and they are simply re-iterating what other ning nongs have already said.
It's like you jump over the cliff, so I'll jump over the cliff too - ie, me too...
Originally Posted by JDR76
I find it depends on year, model, and even trim/packages.
I totally agree.
Space, handling, ride and refinement - are a compromise; the more you have of one, the less you have of the other - hence there is no single perfect model, but models with a set of pros and cons, advantages and disadvantages; it's a matter of choosing which set of pros/cons best suits your needs, wants and tastes.
For example, the old 2003-10 E60 5 Series - it was lightweight for a midsize sedan, such that the steering response was so sharp, and the limits of adhesion so high.
The drawbacks of the lightweight 2003-10 E60?
It was cosy inside with limited rear legroom.
The E60 was noisier with less sound insulation.
For the 2008 NHTSA Frontal Test, the E60 failed with only 1 star.
The 2010-17 F10 5 Series was more spacious, softer riding & quieter, but heavy and floaty around corners, and it totally lost its steering precision.
Meanwhile the current 2012-19 GS handles very well - for its weight, but wheelbase & cabin length a bit limited, while the F Sport's ride is too firm.
Originally Posted by plex
Test drive one and compare for yourself.
Precisely.
Originally Posted by Stewart350
I've driven a 2015 535i for a few days and I felt the car drove heavy. I hated it. I used to own a E60 550i and felt it handled and drove much better. The new M550i are amazing though. I've been helping my pops shop for a used 2016 and up and they do not disappoint. The Gs does not stack up against the M model 5 series at all. The Gs F-sport and luxury model, in my opinion, competes very well with the 535i and 540i. Bmw does take the win in seat comfort and infotainment.
Very true about the 535i.
However be careful with the 550i and M550i's etc.
They are V8's with a big heavy V8 engine under the bonnet - and a reluctance to turn-in despite their tremendous in-line performance.
Thus, they must be compared to the GS F V8 for handling.
Originally Posted by baconRx
Thats how BMW makes their money. Most BMWs on the road are base, small engine models and people buy them cause they want the image not performance. I laughed the other day when i was behind one and noticed one of the "double" exhaust tips was actually fake.
Very true.
Nowadays, Lexus has the GS200t and GS300 2.0L 4 cylinder turbos too.
Thats how BMW makes their money. Most BMWs on the road are base, small engine models and people buy them cause they want the image not performance. I laughed the other day when i was behind one and noticed one of the "double" exhaust tips was actually fake.
This is the same thing for BMW, MB, and Audi. 80% of the new ones you see rolling around are all the slow, skinflint/base models. And its hysterical too, they bought for image but anyone with half a brain knows that they sucked for the pitch and likely leased the cheap model, probably because that was the car offered with the best leasing price, all the while not knowing they leased the worst possible version of the car in the
product line. Lexus was also doing this too, mostly with the IS250.
the biggest one is the around town driving in a bmw with a turbo and throttle response
i loved my ls430
i am about in love with the inline 6 driving around town with the complete opposite feeling. mild throttle responses, no turbo lag and inline 6 bliss
compare that to the gs200 and you will see who has engineering with turbos for 20 years.
probably had a 3 year old air filter in the car with spark plugs that were 4 years old with using arco gas
the point is its all opinion and what makes everyone feel good
to me my buddies gs getting 17 mpg is a deal breaker for me, now he is running regular unleaded in it it is knocking off the line and he doesn't understand the gas mileage difference using premium almost pays for itself and you get the better performance.
Lol, no it wouldn't, because I refuse to believe that Lexus would bother making something that unreliable. That's not characteristic of the brand/company at all.
I'd buy into the engineering argument if these companies had a list of stuff you would systematically replace at certain intervals to forestall the failures. Most of the "tech" in these cars is hardly new, either. All 3 of them have made cars on age-mature platforms and still produced stuff that fails way too much for its own good. It's quite obvious that they bank on throwaway culture and badge vanity, although even all 3 of the aforementioned german badges come out looking like pious saints compared to say range rover or jaguar.
Of course whats also weird is once in a blue moon all of these companies accidentally produce something that actually lasts, for example, BMW 3 or 5 series owners don't grouse nearly as much as M owners do, not by a long shot. Might have something to do with the volume of production driving out obvious problems vs time and BMW not wanting to absorb that kind of liability. It's easy to pretend a flaw doesn't exist in an M3 or M4 when not that many of the cars exist, its a lot harder to say the same for a 3 or 5 series when there's an exponentially greater pool of cars in service... or other classic examples, sometimes you see lots of old benzes still on the road. That means that at least within that one product line, the cars weren't junk, if people were willing to keep them on the road.
-Mike
For some folks German car companies should be long out of business if reliability is the only factor in automobiles. German 4 banger turbo is now putting out 300 horses.
Their engines evolve almost by the year. BMW I6 2 stage screw turbo puts out now 350 horses. We still use technology based on German engineering during the WW II.
I can live with any car but I happen to like German's. I had Lexus once too. Still have some Toyota products in the family. Of course nothing is perfect even space ship is
not. That's why they carry 5 computers on board for back up purpose.
the biggest one is the around town driving in a bmw with a turbo and throttle response
i loved my ls430
i am about in love with the inline 6 driving around town with the complete opposite feeling. mild throttle responses, no turbo lag and inline 6 bliss
compare that to the gs200 and you will see who has engineering with turbos for 20 years.
probably had a 3 year old air filter in the car with spark plugs that were 4 years old with using arco gas
the point is its all opinion and what makes everyone feel good
to me my buddies gs getting 17 mpg is a deal breaker for me, now he is running regular unleaded in it it is knocking off the line and he doesn't understand the gas mileage difference using premium almost pays for itself and you get the better performance.
happy holidays
I have only driven the 535i 3.0 Turbo from some years ago - I have not had a chance to drive the updated 540i 3.0 Turbo.
However, my experience with BMW's 3.0 Turbo is that the torque curve is not flat - flooring the throttle, the torque curve is initially depressed as the turbo spools up, and by the time the turbo spools up, then comes the big thrust.
It is for this very reason that Formula 1 racing cars and Mercedes new 48 volt electric turbocharged in-line sixes use "electricturbos" that can spool to 70,000 rpm in just 2 milliseconds!
If BMW's in-line six turbo was as a bliss as you said, then electric turbos would not exist.
A conventional exhaust driven turbo has a very narrow rpm operating range - resulting in lag, compromised bottom end punch, or compromised top end punch.
Only an electric turbo used in F1 can solve this issue.
Right now, the reason why we don't see much development in electric turbos is because engineers are heavily investing into the "electrification" of motor cars...
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12-26-18, 12:34 PM
