np20412

Whatever it is, or isn't, I was just giving my perception just like literally everyone else in this thread has been doing. Whatever Lexus says it is is probably what it is, but it doesn't make a difference to me at the end of the day. I spend exactly 0 seconds in Sport S. I'm either in eco, normal or S+, usually just normal.

bb700092

Completely agree! I thank bclexus for sharing that chart. Mine is a 2016 GS 200T with Premium package, so no AVS or Sport+ mode. I tried again today but could not feel any difference in steering between Eco/Normal and Sport modes. But the difference in throttle and shift characteristics between Eco/Normal and Sport modes are very noticeable to me. If the steering change is "subtle" and only occurs in certain situations, such as taking turn at low speed as in a parking lot, then it is possible I might have missed it. However, if the change in steering feel is supposed to be as noticeable as between Eco/Normal and Sport+ modes in a F-Sport model, then there might be a problem with my car.

Fortunately, there is a preowned 2016 GS 200T non-F-Sport for sale at my local Lexus dealership. I plan to test drive it to make sure there is no problem with my car.

bb700092

I hope you have test driven a F-Sport model. Is the change in steering feel between Eco/Normal and Sport modes in your GS as noticeable as that between Eco/Normal and Sport+ modes in a F-Sport model? Or, is it much more subtle?

Also, could you please share the source of the above Drive Modes chart?

JDR76

signdetres

Yes sir, you've got it exactly right. That is what I am saying. If you read my post earlier in this thread, I very clearly stated that it was apparent that the behavior of the vehicle versus what the manual states are not in sync with one another, which leads me to believe the manual is not telling the full story. I also very clearly stated my findings were only applicable to our 2018 GS and majority of which were not to our 2015 GS as the 2015 was more in sync with the manual.

You act as if it's unheard of for vehicles to have different settings and adjustments depending on the drive mode it's in. Have you taken a look at any new cars in the last 10 years? Doesn't sound like it. This is the norm in this day and age. I've driven many Lexus loaner vehicles that also have the same behavior. Speaking from first hand experience, the RX 350L and RX 450hL I've driven for a week at a time each both had effortless steering in Eco mode, heavier steering in Normal mode and even heavier steering in Sport. I've driven an IS200t that also did this.

In the day and age of EPS, these are simple adjustments that require simple programming. The amount of customization and tuning available to manufacturers' EPS systems is incredible. They can dial in and adjust a number of factors without having to make any physical modifications to the cars.

You being in disagreement does not mean Lexus is in disagreement. There are a lot of things they don't advertise about these cars, such as the ability to essentially drive themselves in traffic hands-free for extended periods of time, very similar in operation to Tesla's Autopilot. I use this regularly in my GS and have used it in the aforementioned RX loaners. I wasn't even aware our cars were advanced enough to do this until I got my 2018 GS. They don't really mention the structural improvements made to the windshield starting in the 2015 model year, nor do they really mention the structural improvements to the passenger side of the vehicle made for the 2016+ model year, but those changes are there. They don't mention any steering adjustments/refinements have been made but I can tell you first-hand steering weight overall is far heavier and more BMW-like in our 2018 GS and much lighter overall in our 2015, more Lexus RX-like. In addition, our 2018 is buttery smooth at all points of steering whereas our 2015 has a very numb and notchy on-center feel and has a bit of play as you initially begin steering left or right from the on-center position (if this is related to rear-steering or not, I could not tell you as I have not driven a facelifted GS with rear-wheel steering). There are many other changes that are not documented but as someone who lives with both old and new versions of the GS, those changes are there. Documented or not, they're not any less real.

With all due respect, your GS does not have any of the available adaptive driving systems so it would make sense in your experience that there aren't any differences between drive modes as all you can really adjust is your transmission mapping/throttle response. I have 2, one with almost all of the available systems & one with every single available system. Let me know when you live with 2 examples of GS' both pre-facelift and facelift on a daily basis that can adjust their suspension dampening, steering weight, steering ratio, and rear-wheel steering systems with each of their drive modes.

Don't worry, it's not in your head. That is a real-world benefit of the rear-wheel steering system. At speeds above 45mph, the rear wheels steer in the same direction as the front wheels, which is why you notice that effortlessness. Our 2015 GS with rear-wheel steering is notably more stable, effortless & smooth at highway speeds than our 2018 GS without rear-wheel steering. High-speed freeway cornering is very impressive with the rear-wheel steering and you absolutely notice the difference in GS' that don't have it. Without the system, there is noticeable front-end push when changing lanes or cornering at high speeds. None of this behavior exists in the rear-wheel steering equipped cars.

signdetres

Final point: Lexus does not say the steering ratio changes between Normal and Eco but it's very clear that it does as when the vehicle is in Adaptive Cruise Control mode with Lane Keep Assist and Steering Assist active, in Eco mode, the system does a great job of steering itself around bends and remaining centered in the lane whereas in Normal mode, it tends to ping pong between the lane more and is actually a little unpleasant to use due to being dialed in to a quicker steering ratio. In Normal mode the self-steering feels like it's trying to fight you for control whereas in Eco mode, it feels like it's working with you.

Please go drive a new GS F-Sport (RWD as the AWD models are neutered and missing many of these features) and try this one simple test and you'll understand. Lexus says that Sport S+ mode is the only one that dials up the suspension settings. Drive around in Eco or Normal and then switch into Sport S (not S+) and you'll very obviously feel how much rougher the ride instantly gets in just the Sport S mode. It's laughable at how obvious this is, yet again, according to Lexus, "no changes" are made in Sport S to the suspension. This is a silly argument.

Cwang

Am I right assuming that at cornering speeds on a windy road, the wheels turn in the opposite direction to the front? It really felt that the car wanted to turn in, there was no resistance from the rear wheels... That sort of skiddy feel from tyres being dragged against their will disappeared. Subtle but beautiful

bb700092

Does the base/premium GS RWD have VGRS (variable gear ratio steering)?

bb700092

In these videos from Lexus on drive modes (in general for Lexus vehicles and not specific to GS), it is stated:

- Sport mode accentuates throttle response, switches to more performance-oriented shift points and changed the steering feel when more response is desired.
- Sport Plus mode has the same impact as the Sport mode however, it also stiffens the Adaptive Variable Suspension System for sportier driving characteristics.

Note that, contrary to the chart bclexus shared, these videos do not state any difference between Sport modes in F-Sport/Lux vs. non-F-Sport/non-Lux vehicles. In fact, the videos are shown with a vehicle which has Sport+ mode while making the above statement.



In the statement "Sport mode accentuates throttle response, switches to more performance-oriented shift points and changed the steering feel when more response is desired.", it is not clear to me what exactly is meant by "when more response is desired". Maybe I am not testing my GS in a situation when more response is desired, so I cannot feel the difference in steering between Eco/Normal and Sport modes. But then, Engineering Explained could not feel any difference either!

bclexus

See the attachment below...

The Drive Modes also are explicitly explained in the Owners Manual as well, which correspond precisely with the chart.

signdetres

You are correct. Below 45 mph, the rear wheels steer opposite the front wheels. Above 45 mph, they steer in the same direction as the front wheels. I agree with you, very subtle but beautiful

VGRS is standard and only available on F-Sport models in rear-wheel drive. No others get VGRS. (Speaking solely about GS 350, I'm not well brushed up on the GS 450h but it is standard on RWD F-Sport hybrids as well, not sure about other variations of the hybrid)