Tspinning

Hey Club Lexers,
Thanks for your time. Help me figure out my future car, and spend my money!

About me: 35 year old father of two (husband to one)
Profession: Cloud Security Architect
Location: Boston, MA
Commute: 3-5 miles each way, @ avg MPH 5-8. Typically 45 min each way. - I drive roughly 6k-8k miles per year
Current ride: 2015 IS 250 Crafted (lease ends very soon) @500/mo (nothing down, got rim/tire insurance & paint/leather coating) Rim & Tire paid for itself (5 uses in 3 years - dealership was impressed with my ability to exploit this, interior protection not so much but kids and a lease...
Why change? Need more backseat room for car seats and front passenger sanity. Drive clients sometimes.
Dislikes: I hate the gas mileage of the IS250 (18-19mpg) for crap performance.
Also, Android Auto is beyond appealing to me... but I'm in hell here w/ Toyota/Lexus US.

Likes: Lexus build quality, reliability, warranty/coverage, handling, snow prowess.

The question is:
2018 GS 350F Sport : 2018 GS 350 FSport @ ~$38k
2018 ES 300h : 2018 ES 300h @ ~$32k

Here's my rub.. at 6000-10000 miles per year, for the next 5 years, that is roughly $6000 in gas (20mpg vs 30mpg @ premium $3.25/gallon).

BUT how much will I hate myself for the ES w/ FWD coming from the IS AWD? Will the gas make it up... how about the $6k sales difference... UG.
It feels like $175/mo is a rather large price, but the reward... I'm afraid I'll get the ES to be financially smart but in 2 years kick myself for saving a couple hundred bucks and want to sell it. Think the depreciation in 2 years would wreck the deal?

Help me!

Thanks,
Tom

rj4510

I usually don't recommend making emotional decisions, but with cars, I found logic alone to leave me longing. With this in mind, if you are questioning kicking yourself with the ES, then walk away now. It's not worth it. Gas mileage on a GS isn't going to be much better than what you are getting at the speeds you've been limited to, but man, you'll be a heck of a lot more comfortable, and the GS350 pulls hard when you need it. I haven't driven the IS, but really don't feel the size with the GS. It handles very well for a car of its size. I really don't even miss my BMW, having gone from it to the GS.

I don't lease, so can't make recommendation there. My biggest issue with leasing is where you are now. Payment sounds good, but at some point, you're forced to make a decision and forced, usually translates to poor timing and spending way more. For the amount of mileage you put on, which is on par with what I do per year, I just buy used, save the cash and offload when I feel the need and lose way less. My current payment on my 13 GS, purchased two years ago is $325 per month. People are amazed at how clean it is and always think it's new. Cars are a depreciating asset, but with a lease, you're always paying down the depreciation with nothing to gain at the end. This is a topic for another time though.

If you want Android Auto or Apple Play, the only way to get them on older Gas is going to be after market. I don't even know if the 18 has it. I know the newer models being released to, but Lexus/Toyota have been notoriously annoying with their infotainment. I'm at the point now, I just count out anything to do with their infotainment systems, when it comes to car comparisons. it won't matter anyway. Doubt they will ever keep up with the changes and will likely just take features away down the road. In this respect, aftermarket is just the best option, bugs and all. At lease complaining does get you some resolve with 3rd parties. Complain to Lexus and you'll get the latest ad for An Event To Remember deals.

Best of luck on your hunt.

charley95

Even the 2020 GS doesn't have Carplay. You'd think they'd offer it it in a GS since some of their lower end models have it. I give up on what Lexus is offering and not offering. Who would've thought we'd see a 2020 GS when speculation thought it would've been dead after 2018?!

JDR76

I do like the ES, but still prefer the GS.

I don't have experience with the ESh, but my Highlander is a hybrid and I've learned a few things from it that make me think the ESh may not deliver the mileage you are looking for.

I have found that any drive under about 4 miles, especially when cold out, doesn't take full advantage of the hybrid system and its potential savings. The gasoline engine has to warm up first, and if it really takes you 45 minutes to drive 3-5 miles, it's going to be a slow warm up as your engine won't be under much load. In cold weather, the gasoline engine will have to keep firing back up to keep it and the interior warm. The more than engine is running, the more gas you'll be burning through.

Also, the electric battery is only so big. It won't last anywhere close to 45 minutes, or at least it doesn't in my Highlander unless you have lots of coasting at decent speed (40 mph +) to build up some charge again. When it's warm out and I'm on a full charge, just creeping along at 5-8 mph, I can get about 2 miles out of it before the gasoline engine pops back on to start recharging the battery. You get next to nothing from the regen brakes at those low speeds.

You will get some benefit from the electric motors, no doubt, and the gasoline engine is a 4 cylinder versus the V6 in the GS350, so I do agree that there will be gas savings in the ESh, absolutely. I just think your calculations may be optimistic and that you won't realize the savings you are looking for. Then when a long drive or weekend outings come up, you'll be in a less powerful, less fun vehicle than you would be in the GS, not to mention that you can get a GS in AWD where in the ES you cannot, if that's important to you.

For infotainment, neither the 2018 ES nor GS will have CarPlay or AA, so I wouldn't let that be a deciding factor. I just stream Pandora from my phone via bluetooth for music, and use Siri Eyes Free for text messages and I'm totally fine with that.

My commute is about 6 miles each way but only 25 minutes. I fill up my GS every other week so it isn't much of an issue for me.

Test drive both and see what you think, but I would go with the GS, especially since you are comparing it to the older generation of ES. The 2019 ES is substantially improved.

Tspinning

You all are fantastic, great points about the lowest mile/low speed lack of regenerative braking and unoptimized travel for the hybrid. Coupled with the cold long New England winter I think you might be onto something. My wife actually has a RAV4 hybrid 2016 which has been tremendous, but her commute is very different.

I should note, I plan on purchasing this next car so that I will have the flexibility should my situation evolve.

bob256k

You can add CarPlay or android auto to a GS with aftermarket options. I know it's kinda lame that a 65000 car doesn't come with it, but it is what it is. Thank Toyota

peasodos

iTrader: (1)

Usd GS 450h with Luxury package is the way to go. Get performance and excellent gas mileage.

AJLex19

Coming from an '11 IS AWD and into a '13 GS, the most notable difference to me was quality of interior and size. Your current 3IS is lighter than the 4GS so it will feel a touch peppier off the line than any 4GS. Folks on the forum have indicated a much smoother ride on the refreshed GS (2016+) compared to the 2013-2015 F-Sport.

I don't think you will like going from an IS to any version of the ES - but I concur with fellow member JDR76 that you should definitely test drive both of the cars you are considering. I've driven a 2016 IS250 AWD and a 2016 ES350 as loaner cars for about a week at a time and couldn't wait to get back into my GS!

If you can, I would say comparing a similarly priced CPO GS and CPO ESh is the right comparison to keep things more even from the financial perspective - there is almost no difference between a 2016 and a 2018 GS. I'd look to compare a low mileage CPO 2016 GS (https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...8425/overview/) with the 2018 ESh you are considering.

Once you compare the two within the same price point the pros and cons will become more obvious to you and your personal preferences will become highlighted, making the decision easier.

Tspinning

Thanks again for the input everyone, I'll try and setup test drives in the next week or so. Oddly the GS FSport at my local dealer isn't CPO which I assumed it was at that price. Definitely going to wait for the right one at the right price as i have 4 months left on the lease exit. I'm aiming for the ML audio package, and really trying to determine my needs for AWD v. RWD.

Either way, I'll keep ya'll updated on the outcome.

Cheers,
Tom

esonu

GS over ES everyday.

bigblack06

iTrader: (20)

if you decide on rwd then I would suggest the hybrid GS very rare and pretty good power and gas mileage. I would def say gs over ES, the ES is not a GS replacement no matter what Lexus will say. You are coming from a 250 so you will feel the power difference for sure. I can also confirm that the Gs does great in New England snow if you do decide to get awd.

GrimVolous

Hell no to the ES. Period. I call it the overpriced luxury Camry.

rj4510

I wouldn't let this be the deal breaker. I have the ML and like it, but it doesn't blow my socks off. maybe someday when I add a sub. When I first bought the car and started to mess with the audio system I was like WTF???? Found out on here, the system is front and high dominant, so you have to adjust the audio more to the rear, add bass and highs, because you lose some of that in the shift from front to back. That's when the sound system actually sounds good. Now, if you're going to keep the volume low most of the time, skip on the ML, the standard sounds better. If you like to keep the volume up over conversation level, then the ML comes into its own. I'm adding the sub at some point, mainly to give the audio some low end fill, when not turned up. Hopefully, turned up will rip my head off too, but at low volume its less than meh! The standard audio doesn't have the sound stage or clarity though. Neither is perfect, but you'll have to decide which is right for you.

mikesrx350

hi, if your thinking of the GS, search for a nice pre owned Ls460.

I just did a post on the Ls 4th gen forum about comparing my gs350 loaner and the Ls

but for the same gas mileage the v8 is tremendous and the ride and comfort is night and day

good examples can be found for 20k, but be selective and you will thank me.

one of the reasons that is not spoken is the crazy driving all over but in the north east having a big vehicle helps with safety as well
as fyi your IS looks great.
good luck

Amuse350z

iTrader: (3)

GS all day over ES. Period!