bclexus

Here is copy & paste post (below) from the Toyota Nation message board concerning replacing the 'lifetime' transmission fluid. The person making this post declares, in no uncertain language, that replacing the ATF will log data in the ECM that the transmission fluid was changed...and thus the dealer will also know, which will likely present a problem if warranty work is required on the transmission. Just passing it along...

HERE is a 2018 Toyota Camry with 347,509 miles (not a typo) that is said to have the original ATF and presumed to still be going strong.

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"Big T [[i]Toyota] has lifetime ATF since around 2011. Maybe even sooner, like in hybrids.
Pretty much any new car manufacturer has something similar.
Please, be aware that this is for the power train lifetime. Not for how long you own the vehicle. Power train lifetime, though best kept secret, is roughly 140 000 miles on modern cars.
This is why you do not have dipsticks and drain and fill holes are mystery to be solved by any DIY mind. ATF final level has to be determined with TSI and, let me let you in on a little secret. ECM [Engine Control Module] WILL know that you changed fluid.Hence, dealer will know same, if something craps in your transmission and you run to dealer yelling warranty.
Just saying. I am not saying - do not change ATF. Feel free, if you feel like it. Just do it right, as it's traceable."

charley95

Very interesting BC! I'm sure someone will be trying to slam ya over this info. It's always interesting to read your opposing logic on some topics which always makes sense to me.

ItzFilyO

I used to be a member there when I had my 2011 Camry. I still am actually but just never go there now.

CottageChz

Interesting info. I had Lexus do mine. They changed the fluid but not the filter. Didn’t mention any reason why I shouldn’t do it when I asked them to. I would not attempt this one on my own.

bclexus

The statement is not mine, so I really can't support what was said.

Thanks Charlie for the kind words!

bob256k

Honestly, thanks @bclexus I was going get my fluid changed at sometime, but the risks seem too high. I will just make sure the reset of the fluids are regularly changed and hope for the best. I don't do a lot of city driving, but i do like to drive "spirited" on the highway and every once and while during a merge. So far the car has never let me down or had any issues with shifting , so ill just let it be.

bob256k

How the ell do you drive 350,000 MILES in less than 2 YEARs? Was this car a test bed for a car manufacturer or something? Rental?

drgrant

The only thing I can think of that would be logged is if you put the car into the temp calibration mode for setting the ATF level.... the odds of that being logged as an event are highly probable.

If you just dumped the fluid (let's say cold, level surface) and then pumped in exactly the same amount in new fluid, I can't see how it would be able to "know" that.

-Mike

DaSyce

iTrader: (3)

Powertrain warranty ends at 80k miles. If your concerned that changing the fluid will void your warranty, I would guess that would be the time to do it. That or have your Lexus dealer do it, provided they don’t feed you any disclaimers.

bclexus

Bob - I don't have anything to bolster the person's statement (I quoted in my original post) that powertrain lifetime is roughly 140,000 miles with modern vehicles, but that sounds about right to me and doesn't get any argument from me. Like building and bridge engineers car makers over-engineer certain things by factors of 40% to well over 100%. A perfect example of this is the rubber timing belt that many vehicles have, which is usually recommended to be replaced at [say] 90k miles. Some of these timing belts may break before 90k miles, but on-average these belts (if never replaced) will last 50+% longer - or 135k+ miles. I think the 'lifetime' ATF should be fine for at least 140,000 miles the powertrain is expected to last. I would guess that the number of vehicles on the road with more than 100k miles are fairly minimal, and vehicles approaching 140,000 miles still on the road are somewhat rare and not long from being crushed like a soup can. Of course there are exceptions...

That said, very few people keep a vehicle anywhere near 100k miles, much less for 140,000 miles. They often talk about keeping it 'forever' because when it's new it's such a great vehicle that nothing could ever top it, but it just rarely happens. If the vehicle escapes being involved in a significant accident that destines it to the scrap yard early in its life, there is the typical dents, dings, scratches, fading, worn and soiled interior, windshield nicks and cracks, dried-out rubber hoses and suspension bushings, the creaks and rattles, and a long list of other stuff that breaks or fails to work (A/C servo vent dampers, screeching blower fan, power windows motors, side mirror motors, seat motors, sunroof motor, rear shade motor, radio, amplifier, steering wheel clock spring squeak, motor mounts, etc.), not to mention the old outdated technology, and the ever-constant nickle-and-dime repairs that always go into keeping a high mileage vehicle reasonably reliable. It still becomes a high mileage, old vehicle! And, regardless what the old vehicle may be - some people will laugh at you for driving such an old outdated model. You know, even that once gorgeous, sexy girl turns into an old gal as the years go by!

azipod

Here are some great videos from unbiased industry experts which talks about "lifetime" fluid.








I would take Toyota and Lexus' opinions with a grain of salt. You have to remember that they are in the business to sell cars and will do whatever it takes to market their products. Also, I doubt many older cars in the used car market ever make it to a car dealership...... Therefore, a "25-year tenure" service manager at Toyota likely does not have the expertise of a reputable independent mechanic. It's smart to listen to people who are unbiased and have no dog in the game.

er34

What warranty covers the transmission after 347509 miles? I think Mazda is the only one with "unlimited km" warranty?

Would you suspect the condition of the fluid may differ if the 347509miles is done over a span of 10 years instead of 2 years?

bclexus

Here (image below) is information about Toyota ATF-WS from a Service Bulletin (T-SB-0006-11) direct from Toyota. As noted below - 100,000 Mile Maintenance Interval - INSPECTION ONLY: ATF-WS does NOT require flushing or changing during the life of the vehicle.

Since only 'Inspection' is necessary at 100,000 miles and no flushing/changing is required for the 'life of the vehicle' - that means Toyota fully expects the 'life of the vehicle' to be well beyond 100,000 miles. That would suggest that the 140,000 miles (which was the mileage stated by the person I quoted in my original post) is a reasonable mileage to expect.

Also, (as noted in the image below) - The use of additives or aftermarket fluids that are considered compatible or substitutes may result in shift concerns or damage to the internal components of the transmission. Therefore, regardless of what any other ATF maker may state about their ATF being compatible or a substitute for Toyota's WS fluid it is almost certain NOT to be equal, compatible or a substitute for your Toyota transmission and is therefore strongly not recommended.





Watch this very detailed video about 60 Years of Toyota Automatic Transmission Fluids from a true automatic transmission expert (John Kelly) with decades of experience that is not your typical backyard shade-tree DIYer that has no clue whatsoever what he's talking about. The entire video is both interesting and educational about the various Toyota ATFs used since the late 1950s up through the current year of 2019.

Beginning around 25:45 in the video Mr. Kelly will start discussing the Toyota WS automatic transmission fluid, which came out 17 years ago in 2002, and of course is still used today. While the formulation of WS fluid may have been tweaked a little over the past 17 years it remains basically the same after all these years. This says a lot because most car makers change their ATFs far more often - so after 17 years WS is still the ATF of choice by Toyota and Aisin Transmission, and is real testament for just how good WS fluid is. It is said that Toyota and Aisin Transmission will not release information about the blend or mix formulation of various ingredients that make-up Toyota WS automatic transmission fluid, which is purposely designed specifically for Toyota transmissions which is not duplicated by any aftermarket suppliers and therefore no other aftermarket ATF is recommended in their transmission.

Note: Pay particular attention to John Kelly's advice on aftermarket ATFs that 'claim' to be equal or compatible with Toyota WS fluid - it is not only not equal or compatible with WS fluid, it's definitely not better nor is it recommended even though it may be full synthetic. Be very careful before putting anything other than Toyota WS ATF in your transmission because you are only asking for trouble. There really is no need to do anything with the transmission in your Toyota or Lexus...because the ATF is indeed 'lifetime' fluid that is good for well beyond 100k miles where only 'inspection' is required!

If it wasn't truly 'lifetime' fluid dontcha kinda maybe think we would have heard about tens-of-thousands of Toyota/Lexus owners b:tching and complaining about their automatic transmissions failing before the odometer reached say 140,000 miles, or even more? Hasn't happened, has it? It sounds like the absolute worse thing you can do is to replace your vehicle's automatic transmission fluid with something [anything] other than Toyota WS fluid. Be careful trying to improve on something when all you can do is cause damage!

praetor

When you need new ATF, just trade in your car for a new one. Problem solved.

azipod

Jeez. I literally fell asleep reading that. <yawn>