Cwang

True that, I think the ES is cheaper although here it's seen as an Avalon in drag(which isn't untrue). We also didn't have the ES between 2004-2013 which may explain why luxury buyers in 2011-2013 were getting the top 4GS. I'm not sure too many are cross shopping the LS and GS as there's a $85K(58K USD) price difference, maybe they're cheaper in the US?

It's a pretty sexy badge!! Love the body kit too.


Does your *top trim* not have the corresponding badge on the back of the car? Ours say "Sports Luxury" so you know it's the king ****. The ugly front bumper and fogs are a dead giveaway too haha

I find the seats a tad small too., adjustability does help however. I figured the Japanese would have modeled it on the average American frame, not one of their own countrymen. I'd love to put a set of 20 way seats into mine as Peasdos did but am yet to find a set!

UDel

Luxury Trim was rare in the US because they priced it so high, it was over $5000 and looked exactly the same as the base aside from the wheels, you add that to a GS already upgraded with the Nav package, cold weather, and it is pretty expensive. I think many people just didn't see spending that much on a package as worth it, it is the details of the package that make many on CL want it, mainly upgraded leather, rear seat controls, AVS, Sport+, rear sunshades, 18 way power seats, etc. I think most still think it should be maybe a $2000 to $2500 package at most instead of being over twice as expensive.

GS has always had as much or more luxury/features then the ES, I doubt anyone would choose a ES over a GS if they were just looking for luxury, a GS rides better, has higher quality trim pieces, feels more solid, more sound deadening then a ES. People get the ES over the GS because it costs so much less and they don't see the GS as worth the premium.

OUT FOX EM

I have a 2019 ES now on loan from the dealer while my 2016 AWD Luxury GS is getting serviced. Wow, does the ES make me miss my GS. I was actually a little excited to try out the newest car from Lexus and see what might supposedly replace the GS. It was just something different, so I was anxious to take it for a drive.

Well, I hated it the instant I sat in it. The driver side door rattled when it closed, first of all. I literally opened it and closed it again and it rattled again. The car only has 3000 miles on it. And it's rattled every time I've closed it since. The seats are far less comfortable than my GS. And I'm not talking about adjustments, I just mean the shape, material, etc. The quality of the interior is far, far inferior to that of my GS. The materials used, the placement, and the overall look, fit, and finish are several notches below the GS. The infotainment is somehow *worse* than the GS. I don't hate the joystick/mouse situation as much as everybody else. But the navigation of the new system is actually harder with a touchpad than a joystick, because the cursor is still not free floating. At least with the GS the joystick is relatively 1:1 within its boundaries and movements as it corresponds to the screen, whereas on the ES, you can still move your finger when you hit a boundary/limit, but the cursor simply just doesn't move. It's absolutely HORRIBLE. I can't believe they made it worse, but they did. If the cursor was allowed to freely float, it would be better. But that one design decision makes it so much harder and clunkier to navigate than the joystick.

Oh, I haven't even started the car yet.

Let's talk about the driving. The car is made for grandma, plain and simple. I wasn't even trying to push the car -- it's not mine, so I'm driving it far more conservatively than how I drive my GS. But if you consider yourself an "aggressive" driver at all, meaning you're usually the first one out of the stoplight, or you tend to drive a little over the speed limit, or you turn into traffic when others wouldn't, knowing you can just gas it... well the ES is the worst car for you. It bogs off the line like no other. It has the same engine as the GS, and yet, it feels less punchy off the line than even a 4 cylinder. This is true even in Sport mode. Once it gets rolling and the RPMs get into the powerband, it's fine. But what ends up happening is you try to take off, you don't end up actually moving, so you give it some more gas, and now you spin the wheels. This has happened at least 5 times since I've been driving it. I've never spun the wheels on my GS unintentionally. Now, obviously the ES is FWD, so some of that is just inherent to a FWD vehicle, but that still doesn't excuse the way it bogs down and lags at lower RPM's. I've driven many FWD vehicles, and they don't spin the tires like that just trying to take off either. It's like there's turbo lag and it's not even a turbocharged vehicle. Completely unacceptable. I'm guessing a lot of this might be due to the 8 speed transmission, but whatever it is, I hate it.

The steering is also absolutely terrible in the ES compared to the GS. I noticed it literally the first turn I made before I was even out of the dealer parking lot. The steering wheel is also a lot smaller, which is fine I suppose, but it also is a lot more "numb" I would say. The GS responds much more quickly to turns than the ES, whereas the ES seems as if it takes more effort to turn, and just wants to go straight. I thought at first it was the Lane Keep Assist or some other assist, so I turned off all of the assists for awhile, but that's just how the car feels in general. As expected the body rolls a lot more through turns as well.

With all of that said, there are a couple of things I did like about the ES, and some features I would move to the GS if I could.

First, I did enjoy the quality of the ride from a "luxury" perspective. The rough roads and spots that I feel in the GS, I hardly noticed in the ES. I expected a softer ride, but it is MUCH softer. Grandma would definitely appreciate it. I'm not sure how much of that is the 18" wheels vs. the 19" wheels I have, but it's definitely a lot smoother over the rough areas. There's a lot more body roll in the turns than the GS, so I wouldn't trade places from a driving perspective, but I do appreciate it for what it is. It rides very nicely.

The brakes also feel like they bite a lot harder than the GS, which was surprising. If you switch from a GS to an ES, your first few times stopping will be somewhat hard stops because of it. When looking at the data, the ES does stop 8 feet shorter from 60-0 than the GS, so it seems as if the brakes are better on the ES (non F-Sport vs. non F-Sport).

The heated seats and heated steering wheel work much better than they do on the GS. For one, the entire steering wheel gets warm, as opposed to just parts of it, and it has 2 settings -- "high" and "low" -- for heating the steering wheel. It actually gets borderline "hot" when on high, which on really cold days would be nice. The GS heated steering wheel is very underwhelming in comparison. The same goes for the heated seats -- the high setting gets quite a bit warmer than the GS does.

Another thing I like is when you approach the car, the puddle lights will come on, but so will the interior lights. So if you’re alone at night, you can see if anyone is hiding in your vehicle before you get in. I think that’s a great feature for some people.

Another interesting feature is the car will display the speed limit on your dash next to the all digital speedo/tach (which is kind of cool but I think I still prefer analog needles). And I could be wrong but I think it actually uses the camera on the car to see the speed limit sign, because it displayed the construction speed limit for a road correctly, as opposed to the normal speed limit, which I found interesting. Now the other side to this is the car dinged at me every time I exceeded that speed limit. So if the speed limit changes on a stretch of road — ding. If I turned into a new road — ding. Now I imagine that can probably be turned off, but the driver in me was annoyed by it, while the tech geek in me was impressed. Kind of a mixed bag on this one, but cool nonetheless. Gotta be able to disable the ding though. Let the cops patrol my speed, not my car. Now if the car is going to ding at me when it spots cops, that’s a different story all together! That would be a feature worth getting the ES for.

Though the infotainment navigation is worse, the screen is miles better. I do not like how it looks as if there is a tablet mounted to the dash, but I will say the quality of the screen is much better. It's definitely higher resolution, higher contrast, brighter, etc. It's like the days of the smartphone when the "Retina displays" et al. became the norm. The step up is very noticeable. We know the GS is behind in this regard, but the ES makes it very apparent from the moment you see it.

And lastly, the coolest feature I found on the ES was when driving at night. This one really impressed me. When you turn the wheel, or put on your blinker to begin a turn, the vehicle will extend the headlight out to that side of the vehicle to let you see the area you're turning into. This is an incredible feature, allowing you to see things before your car is pointed at it, whether that be something in the road, a neighborhood cat running across the street, etc. I really wish the GS had this feature -- especially if you have tinted windows like me.

I'm sure over time the ES would grow more on me, and I would find other things I like, but I know I would find other things I don't like also (like one cup holder, no power folding mirrors, smaller windows, etc.). Overall, I knew the GS was on a whole different level than the ES, but I didn't expect THAT big of a gap. It's made me appreciate my GS that much more, and can't wait to have it back. I really, really pray this is not the replacement for the GS. Simply making this car AWD will not save it. The car will need to be completely overhauled if it is to take over the role of the GS.

LexusGSboy

Cwang - love the "Avalon in drag" comment. Luxury versions, to my knowledge, had no different badging from a standard GS in the US. As many have pointed out, the way you find them is from the wheels on the exterior or the features on the interior like the 3rd zone climate controls on the back arm rest, or the seat controls, to name a few.

The multiple comments folks made about the ES are a little interesting to me. Every time I've ever been in an ES - all the way back to the 2000 model years - I was always surprised how totally quiet it was - to the point I didn't like it because I couldn't hear the engine really. A friend of mine who was test driving things has thought the same. I do agree that they are more "grandma/grandpa" luxury than sport luxury so for me it's hard to put them and the GS together other than by the fact they're roughly the same size so I see them in that market.

I do agree that the ES is a bit strange for Lexus given their initial plan was to go up against the Germans with RWD/AWD not FWD but I think to some extent that's out of necessity to sell enough vehicles. The ES is surely the sedan you see the most of by far. I test drove a new 2020 version, my things was that the rear head height is worse than the last gen, otherwise it was an ok car.

thallium

I don't think most Lexus owners know what F sport means let alone non-car people. I never heard of it until after I'd bought my GS and then I still didn't know what it meant until I researched it and even then it isn't very prestigious anyway.

Cwang

Interesting, I wonder why, gotta get some street cred for the $$$! I guess it's because US cars are made up of many option packs and most cars don't badge option packs apart from performance ones. There's only two choices here, Fsport or the luxury model which includes all possible options as standard...but it is $9K USD more than the Fsport so it's pretty much the same thing in the end. At least you can choose what you want without having to pay for it all.

thallium

They also used to put V6 badges on the Camrys but stopped in 2007 I think.