My new ride... Again! lol
01-23-20, 08:18 PM
#16
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
And the S+ mode is an option on the ES FSport and no dealer seems to have one with it so there's really no major improvement if it doesn't have the S+ mode VS the regular ES.
01-24-20, 08:13 AM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
Stopping distances usually are determined more by the tires (and pavement) than by the brakes. Brakes are no better than the difference between one's ability of 'threshold braking' (slowing down the quickest by maintaining brake force at the optimum level without locking up the wheels) versus locking-up the wheels and skidding the tires. Any vehicle's brakes can be used to 'threshold brake' by an experienced driver, and any vehicle's brakes can be used to lock 'em up and skid the tires. That only leaves the vehicle's weight and the vehicle's tires (along with the pavement friction) as variances. Now, if the vehicle is being tracked, then of course bigger brakes and track pads will stand the heat related abuse of heavy braking over and over and over in short periods of time, but that consideration is meaningless except on the track.
I appreciate the brake lesson, but I know how they work. Having driven both, and looking at data from both, it's clear the new ES just has better brakes than the base GS. At this point it just sounds like you're making excuses for the GS. All of those factors you listed were present in all tests for both cars. They all come to the same conclusion: the ES just stops better. That's all there is to it. Go drive a 2019+ ES and then come back and tell me your impressions. I've driven both -- have you?
I stand by my 'lesson'. If one car has a shorter stopping distance it is because one or more of the following conditions; (a) the tires are wider and have a larger surface area, (b) the tires have a softer compound, (c) the tires have a different tread pattern and/or tread depth, (d) the car weighs less, (e) the test was performed at different places and/or different times, (f) or the pavement friction was better. Even tire pressure is a factor. It's just that simple - it's physics - nothing more, nothing less. Make the conditions optimal (e.g. traction coefficient) and an old junker can be made to stop better... Did you happen to notice that the size of the brakes were not listed as a factor? The performance of big brakes only standout on the track where heat buildup is a factor.
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A little off topic but, think about how quickly (distance-wise) an old common everyday junker with standard disc brakes could stop if fitted with super wide, super soft compound tires on a hot day on a drag strip prepped with super sticky resin on the pavement for maximum traction. Adding 'big brakes' to the old junker would not make any difference whatsoever.
Last edited by bclexus; 01-24-20 at 11:45 AM.
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Im2bz2p345 (01-26-20)
01-29-20, 06:03 PM
#19
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Okay so I've been driving the ES for a little over a week and haven't touched the GS for all that time. When I finally took the GS out for a spin last night it felt like a relic. 😭
But the driving part makes up for it and I gave it a good wash and it ain't that bad anymore.
But the driving part makes up for it and I gave it a good wash and it ain't that bad anymore.
01-29-20, 06:10 PM
#20
Lexus Test Driver
Okay so I've been driving the ES for a little over a week and haven't touched the GS for all that time. When I finally took the GS out for a spin last night it felt like a relic. 😭
But the driving part makes up for it and I gave it a good wash and it ain't that bad anymore.
But the driving part makes up for it and I gave it a good wash and it ain't that bad anymore.
01-30-20, 07:28 AM
#21
Can you elaborate why it felt like a relic? Was it the lack of tech as compared to the new ES? Was the interior significantly better? What about driving dynamics? Genuinely curious.
01-30-20, 08:04 AM
#22
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
The Tech - Yeah it feels newer and better and Lexus should've upgraded the GS tech too for MY 19-20. I found that the LKA (Auto Pilot thing) is much better on the ES vs my GS. That LKA doesn't ping-pong u anymore, it's actively steering the car even on bends. GS can barely steer in mild bends but ES has no problem turning the car. Again, Lexus could've just easily put that same tech in the GS.
Driving Dynamics - This is where the ES can never touch the GS, at least not in its current form. The lack of AVS and being FWD is holding the ES back BIG time and the ES is really quiet, u can barely hear the engine and ur so isolated inside. The GS just feels raw and it can put the power down and handles much better than the ES. Sure the ES is quick on a straight line but I feel that the GS pulls harder in higher RPM and keeps pulling. That transmission is really good on the GS for high speed. The FWD ES keeps struggling to put the power down without spinning the front tires like crazy.
After driving both back to back daily, I can finally say that the GS really feels like a driver's car and responds well to ur commands and like to be pushed harder while the ES is a commuter's car that has power but doesn't like to be pushed hard. Maybe an AWD version with AVS will change that but I still like the GS tranny better, especially when manually shifting.
Last edited by ItzFilyO; 01-30-20 at 08:09 AM.
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01-30-20, 08:11 AM
#23
Thanks...all that makes sense. Luckily for me the only thing that matters is the driving dynamics. Doesn't matter if I'm commuting or going out for a drive. Luckily, VLine fixed much of the tech issues for me and maybe I'm in the minority but I do prefer the less tech-y design. It makes the car feel like a car and not a video game you're sitting in. I'm looking at you new Audi! It's really just less distractions when you're on the road.
Definitely interesting about the LKA. Wonder if it's just software or if there are real hardware differences between the cars.
Definitely interesting about the LKA. Wonder if it's just software or if there are real hardware differences between the cars.
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JDR76 (01-30-20)
01-30-20, 08:31 AM
#26
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Yeah we don't get that many AWDs here in SoCal.
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NickMayer (01-30-20)
01-31-20, 09:24 AM
#29
The Tech - Yeah it feels newer and better and Lexus should've upgraded the GS tech too for MY 19-20. I found that the LKA (Auto Pilot thing) is much better on the ES vs my GS. That LKA doesn't ping-pong u anymore, it's actively steering the car even on bends. GS can barely steer in mild bends but ES has no problem turning the car. Again, Lexus could've just easily put that same tech in the GS.
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01-31-20, 09:42 AM
#30
Lexus Champion
I believe the new ES has Lane Tracing Assist, where as the GS does not.