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Not sure how much cred this guy has, but he provides an update on Toyota and Lexus on his youtube channel. He starts talking about Lexus @ 5:47 mark - with the new IS having a BMW engine then he talks about a new GS model based off Mirai.
yeah that’s Alex. Really nice guy, great YouTube journalist. He’s credible to some extent, but that’s only when Toyota gives him access to vehicles at product launches and auto shows. In that video he’s just reading rumors from a leaked story where many claims are not clear at the moment. I doubt Lexus will be using a BMW powertrain within their own architecture especially when they have their own 2.0l Turbo & 3.5l Turbo V6 that they could use in the IS Lexus. It’s not like we are talking about Lotus here, small boutique brands that make limited production cars have to borrow ubiquitous engines from larger manufacturers. Toyota is fazing most of their ancient engines and replacing them with efficient brand new turbo and hybrid engines over the next 5 years.
The current GS rides and handles well. Decent MPG and high reliability too. The problem with it is that the electronics are outdated and the $57,000 MSRP is way too high. IMO, that’s why it doesn’t sell. There are cars with much better value.
The current GS rides and handles well. Decent MPG and high reliability too. The problem with it is that the electronics are outdated and the $57,000 MSRP is way too high. IMO, that’s why it doesn’t sell. There are cars with much better value.
Take your pick. There’s gotta be a reason why the ES sold 51,000 units in 2019 compared to the GS 3,000.
The ES is still a Lexus and those shopping a Lexus see it’s price point and interior features more than the driver-oriented ones of the GS.
Most average consumers want the badge, the comfort features, and the utility for the lowest price possible. However the reality is...the ES only has a minimal amount of added features and updates in comparison, and because of that...the price point is the pivotal factor...especially to the average consumer who just wants a “Lexus sedan.“
I just figured with a sweeping statement like that you had specific other brand and models in mind. I don’t personally believe that even at the GS’s price point—you’re going to find another RWD Luxury sedan that will have the same balance and reliability.
The times they are a changing. Fewer car models and more cross over unibody tall wagon variants not available. U.S. market always saw anhything with a "hatch" as down market. Ineurope "estate wagon" variants of A4's and 3 series in large sold better for years. Best RS Audis were "wagons" as the weight distribution was better.
Electric cars are new high end cars in demand. Thast and high end CUV's like the Alpha Stevio.
The GS for the preformance is not good MPG. Its reliable. I bought a new 2020 Fsport with everyone but trunk and heads up options. MSRP 59k US, paid 49k.
3500 untis in 2019 in US. WHo knows how much outside? For all we know the model is toast as we speak. I understand for those of you that have had mulitple generations of GS and this was your thing. When I met my wife I had an oldmobile Cutless. She had a new AMC spirit. Then I had a Firebird made by pontiac. All brands gone the way of Nash, Tucker, Rambler, Saturn, Plymouth, Mercury, Saab, MG, Triumph, Studabaker, etc etc.............
GS not a "vette", that is not just a car but a culture. Times change. If Lexus wants a flagship it should be electric and performance. That makes sense for the Next GS.
The GS as we know it is dead or should be. Disagree? The sales numbers don't lie.
Our GS350 F Sport is a great car, but dated. Great real world (not track) speed and handling, comfort, reliability, RWD and lousy mileage. And beautiful!
Who could ask for more?
People want technology. The only car with increasing demand is, you guessed it, Tesla.
And you better believe Lexus is terrified...
Go big or go home, Lexus GS.
The GS as we know it is dead or should be. Disagree? The sales numbers don't lie.
Our GS350 F Sport is a great car, but dated. Great real world (not track) speed and handling, comfort, reliability, RWD and lousy mileage. And beautiful!
Who could ask for more?
People want technology. The only car with increasing demand is, you guessed it, Tesla.
And you better believe Lexus is terrified...
Go big or go home, Lexus GS.
Tesla’s are **** for reliability and the people that buy them in the name of “environmental responsibility” don’t realize that they’re doing the same harm to the environment they’re just shifting the carbon footprint to the manufacture and waste of the batteries.
Take your pick. There’s gotta be a reason why the ES sold 51,000 units in 2019 compared to the GS 3,000.
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
The GS as we know it is dead or should be. Disagree? The sales numbers don't lie.
Our GS350 F Sport is a great car, but dated. Great real world (not track) speed and handling, comfort, reliability, RWD and lousy mileage. And beautiful!
Who could ask for more?
Originally Posted by UBMGS
Tesla’s are **** for reliability and the people that buy them in the name of “environmental responsibility” don’t realize that they’re doing the same harm to the environment they’re just shifting the carbon footprint to the manufacture and waste of the batteries.
Its been SUV’s in general that killed the sedans.
CUV/SUV-based tall wagons have certainly "moderate" damage to sedan sales.
How do we know it is really only moderate impact?
Because the E Class sells 39k to GLE's 49k, while the 5 Series sells on par with X5 @ 38k a piece!
It is RX's 110k against ES's 51k that has major impact.
Luxury midsize sedan sales still "reasonably" abound with the E Class & 5 Series selling 39k and 38k respectively last year - albeit at even higher prices than GS thanks to E Class and 5 Series major refresh in 2016 and 2017 respectively.
Thus, the primary reason why GS sales have tanked is that the last major refresh was something like late January of 2012 - more than 8 years ago!
CUV/SUV tall wagon sales boom is only a secondary factor.
Originally Posted by Nalod
GS not a "vette", that is not just a car but a culture. Times change. If Lexus wants a flagship it should be electric and performance. That makes sense for the Next GS.
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
People want technology. The only car with increasing demand is, you guessed it, Tesla.
And you better believe Lexus is terrified...
Go big or go home, Lexus GS.
Presently, TMC is developing a dedicated electric e-TNGA modular platform with different wheelbases, overhangs, widths, different heights in sedan/tall wagon SUV's, different drivetrain choices in HEV/PHEV/BEV/HFCEV, 3 different battery and electric motor sizes for 3 different performance outputs, and different driveline choices in FWD/RWD/4WD.
TMC normally keeps these projects secret.
TMC will generally not make public announcements until at least near release date of an impending luxury midsize RWD BEV sedan replacement.
It is quite silly to try to second guess these secret projects.
TMC needs the element of surprize...
And no one knows what Lexus may or may not have in the works. I'd like to see these posts brought up again if they introduced a killer 5 GS. I just don't understand why someone would want to see the GS end. Look at the Corvette guys, they're tickled pink with the new C8.
That isn't true. A few of us have heard enough about nothing planned on that front and other Lexus AND Toyota vehicles are coming instead of it.
Just because customers on a forum do not know who to trust, doesn't imply that everyone else is just as unaware of some magical plans as you imply.
This is not from dealers, but USA personnel who are the most relevant sources outside of Japan HQ. My UK contacts are now irrelevant, as they no longer get the car.
Unless Toyota plans to shift to USA production for the GS magically without any announcement, it is gone.
And no, no one is wishing for its demise. It's been kept past its sell by date with no meaningful updates. It has to go and because nothing else in that segment is onstream per LUSA nor are any new trademarks hinting at anything through MY 2023, it's dead.
It does no one any good to get their hopes up and be disappointed time after time by, in expecting what isn't coming. An LC-F is 1000x more likely at this point.
And thirdly, the Chevrolet Corvette has no business being compared to a 27 year old nameplate under a much younger luxury brand, in being a culture onto itself as someone else said and an sports car icon of the GM brand, in continuous production since 1953.
I don't know why you think that's a good example as opposed to a Cadillac CT5 or Jaguar XF.
Loyal enthusiasts tried to make the GS a thing culturally, but Lexus did not support them enough with consistent worthwhile marketing and cutthroat product development to standout well enough.
I blame Toyota MC for being stretched too thin with too many JDM Toyota variants and Toyota brand overall hogging resources. MB and BMW approach their E segment offerings as their core business, not just an afterthought, to somehow achieve a higher profit margin over mainstream badge.
I worked for Jaguar Land Rover and made resentful contributions to the X260 XF development program early in my career, knowing I didn't care for what the budget barely allowed us to do. That car is unsuccessful as I expected, because we were restricted. The next XJ I worked on, was cancelled and rebooted with new designation. I quit.
Originally Posted by denary
Not sure how much cred this guy has, but he provides an update on Toyota and Lexus on his youtube channel. He starts talking about Lexus @ 5:47 mark - with the new IS having a BMW engine then he talks about a new GS model based off Mirai.
And Alex of course got that from the same clickbait entity that I am refuting. It's like I never said anything at all.
Imagine highrev6's mention of the 2020 Highlander Hybrid in 2018 losing V6 being said in confidence to a friend (let's say at GM) and that friend tells a journalist word-for-word, in which that journalist makes a few minor mistakes and then publishes it. Then some random on Instag copies what the journalist said and then implies even worse, the 2020 Highlander will be a twin turbo V8 AWD hybrid, because the insider (highrev6's friend) is now Akio Toyoda's best friend to sweeten credibility of their snuck-in, piggybacking BS.
It wouldn't be credible, yet too many people want to trust this theory in spite of my own warnings. I've said enough to steer the ship correctly, so if anyone wants to continue trusting that, oh well.
Originally Posted by Nalod
The times they are a changing.
GS not a "vette", that is not just a car but a culture. Times change. If Lexus wants a flagship it should be electric and performance. That makes sense for the Next GS.
Good point on the Vette, as that was a ridiculous comparison in the first place and pretty much apples to oranges. The four-door sport sedan is dying except in regards to the most heralded nameplates.
As for cars in general, they are going back to form after 60+ years of 3 box designs. In the 1940s and earlier, the average car was upright and tall, if not trucky as well.
The only difference now is that they're mostly automatic, unibody, and transversely mounted (engine). I have had to accept this as someone who has hated the crossover craze the past 5 years, when I realized they wouldn't allow sedans, hot compacts, and coupes to coexist anymore.
As for the GS becoming a flagship? It will never happen as long as the LS exists. One has to understand the Lexus brand and power of branding, to remember L-badged vehicles rule the roost in terms of pinnacle offerings.
Bread & butter products are never considered flagships, as can be seen with CLS and A7 against S-Class / A8. Only LC, LX, and LS are flagships by virtue of positioning and nomenclature. LC can be both a halo and flagship in being a performance oriented vehicle, as was LFA. LS and LX are not halos.
Just as the AMG GT is not a flagship like the S-Class and S Coupe are. It is a halo vehicle, as it's not a Sonderklasse nameplate.
Originally Posted by peteharvey
Luxury midsize sedan sales still "reasonably" abound with the E Class & 5 Series selling 39k and 38k respectively last year - albeit at even higher prices than GS thanks to E Class and 5 Series major refresh in 2016 and 2017 respectively.
Thus, the primary reason why GS sales have tanked is that the last major refresh was something like late January of 2012 - more than 8 years ago!
At the risk of sounding pedantic a REFRESH is NEVER a FULL MODEL CHANGE.
I'm finding that too many people are not so good with those terms or are misled by somebody else making a gaffe.
Level of attention to vehicles during product cycles are: Update (see 2016MY IS 200t)->Refresh (see 2016MY ES)->Facelift (see 2016 LX)->Redesign (2018 LS). Major refresh or facelift can virtually be the same thing. A REFRESH is however NOT a generation changeover.
The only L10 GS refresh occurred in November 2015.
Originally Posted by peteharvey
TMC normally keeps these projects secret.
"Secret" to who? The media? Blogosphere? Myself and a few don't give a hoot about the non-Japanese media in this respect, as they won't be the first to know about this on a corporate level and only cause problems.
EV Lexus models are coming, but not under the GS badge for now. People keep forgetting anything due in 24 months, typically are secured for trademark for a reason.
And from what I know, not much until 2024. Only redesigns of LX, RX, NX, GX, major attention for IS as well, a new CUV. Plus LS, UX, & ES MMCs. No GS is within that.
"Secret" to who? The media? Blogosphere? Myself and a few don't give a hoot about the non-Japanese media in this respect, as they won't be the first to know about this on a corporate level and only cause problems.
EV Lexus models are coming, but not under the GS badge for now. People keep forgetting anything due in 24 months, typically are secured for trademark for a reason.
And from what I know, not much until 2024. Only redesigns of LX, RX, NX, GX, major attention for IS as well, a new CUV. Plus LS, UX, & ES MMCs. No GS is within that.
So that makes sense.
What you're saying is if there is a full BEV GS luxury midsize RWD, it's certainly unlikely to be released within the next 2 years, and is more likely to be due 2024 and onwards.
I really hope they do kill the GS. Car is no longer needed outside of less than 1% of current GS owners and hardcore fans. There is ZERO reason this car is needed in today's market and upcoming climate. Lexus won't even give the new IS proper in house Japanese built engine but rather use BMW's engine ala the Supra if the rumors are true. GS is deader than a door **** and even if you take that video and leaks for what it's worth, there is no way I see Lexus making another purpose built sedan for a car that can't even keep up with Genesis, Kia and Hyundais of the world let alone the Germans.
Your the only one here who keeps saying that, its not fact, just only your opinion, which is fine, but I don't understand why you post in GS forum how you hope they kill the GS and never do another one. I don't think the IS is going to use a BMW engine, it is more likely to use a shared Mazda/Toyota I6. If Lexus would give it a decent non hybrid 6 or 8 cylinder engine with around 400hp for a affordable price it would sell well, even if they gave a engine like that to the current one without raising the price much I think it would see a big boost in sales and would likely surpass Genesis in sales.
One of the main reasons why I never purchased the original 2015 Hyundai Genesis midsize luxury was because I thought it was too big, too heavy, too thirsty, too cumbersome to park, and lacks agility.
I don't know why Genesis keeps oversizing their G80's?
03-28-20, 11:19 AM
vehicles rule the roost in terms of pinnacle offerings.
