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LexFather/1SICKLEX mentioned that production ends in June for the GSF. With the outbreak going on who knows how much production was lost already?
Everyone I posted this elsewhere, regarding the history of GS. When I have time, I will post the same videos and photos here. dating back to possibly 1992 pre-release press photography.
Is LexFather/1SICKLEX still around?
I rarely see him post these days?
Originally Posted by Carmaker1
There is no single Lexus model that wasn't known about more than two years before launch. On the Japanese end there has been no discussion of a new GS coming nor a direct replacement. Only stupid rumors misconstruing my own report regarding Mirai. Both GS and FCV LS were killed in favor of Mirai.
I believe more in 5 years from now versus under 3 yrs.There is nothing in current product plans for anything before MY2024 in terms midsize, RWD. Only LF-1 and RX get attention, as only entry/compact and large RWD Lexus get investment. GA-N is the simply the narrow version of GA-L.
Originally Posted by peasodos
I will start a new rumor the GS will come back as an all electric vehicle in 2025. The game changer for Toyota/Lexus with be solid state batteries.
Okay, there is definitely no midsize RWD replacement in the next 3 years.
It's a pity that Toyota Motor Corp can be so inconsistent, with so much money pouring millions/billions into slow selling sports models like LFA, RC & LC Coupes, 5LS sedan & including the forthcoming ultra low volume V8 TT, yet TMC cannot continue to reskin a RWD-based 2018-Onwards Toyota Crown into a much higher volume selling Lexus 5GS - to keep up their "sporty" philosophy, over a FWD-based 7ES. Inconsistencies at its best!
If Akio wants to fulfil his adage of "No more boring cars", then why not axe the FWD-based 7ES, while releasing a RWD-based 5GS?
The GS-Line combines the sportiness of the LFA, RC, LC and 5LS - with the high volume sales of the FWD-based 7ES.
However, my commonsense still tells me Lexus will have a midsize RWD based replacement especially a full battery powered electric vehicle BEV with the forthcoming dedicated BEV e-TNGA platform available in both RWD and AWD similar to a Tesla Model S by 2024 or 2025 etc.
This year, TMC will begin BEV's with full electric versions of the Toyota CH-R & Lexus UX300e using the traditional ICEV-based GA-C platform in China, with only a very modest driving range of about 200 miles.
Later, TMC will release the dedicated e-TNGA platform as traditional Lion batteries will fall in price, while a rapid breakthrough in solid state battery technology & price will occur with impending release.
Right now, I'm not desperate or itchy fingered enough to buy a BEV.
Just like the 1999 Nikon D1 & the 2003 Canon EOS 300D, the current crop of Teslas are very "unrefined" products, despite being great for the "earlyadopters".
I'd rather TMC take the time to develop BEV's, and give time for BEV technology to improve.
Remember the first dSLR's in the 1999 Nikon D1's and the volume selling 2003 Canon EOS 300D? They are rubbish digital camera technology by today's standards...
Originally Posted by Measured
I thought they haven't shared a platform in years. In the beginning that was most certainly the case. I just wouldn't pay 50k for FWD.
In the old days, Camry and ES shared the Toyota K Platform and drivelines.
Today, Camry and ES share the TNGA GA-K platform and drivelines.
Once Toyota saw the offerings coming off of Genesis new lineup and took a peek on the new gorgeous G80 and G80 Sport sedans they've had to look in the mirror and tell themselves "No way in hell we can compete with those beautiful, powerful and high quality luxury sports sedans and turn around and charge $60k+ for our outdated GS" I'm glad they finally killed off the GS, car was no longer needed in Lexus lineup and couldn't see them pouring billions into a car segment they simply can't compete in let alone dominate.
Once Toyota saw the offerings coming off of Genesis new lineup and took a peek on the new gorgeous G80 and G80 Sport sedans they've had to look in the mirror and tell themselves "No way in hell we can compete with those beautiful, powerful and high quality luxury sports sedans and turn around and charge $60k+ for our outdated GS" I'm glad they finally killed off the GS, car was no longer needed in Lexus lineup and couldn't see them pouring billions into a car segment they simply can't compete in let alone dominate.
If you forced me to take an educated guess?
I suspect the next gen 2021 Genesis G80 won't sell that well relative to its peers: the ES, E Class and 5 Series.
The old Hyundai Genesis/Genesis G80 peaked at a very modest 36k units in 2012 [not very good considering its cheap price], and has been downhill since, especially by 2017 with only 17k units, and 2018 and 2019 with 7k+ each year.
The current Genesis/G80 is quite stylish, and I almost bought this model myself!
Meanwhile, the ES 5ES peaked at 82k in 2007, 6ES peaked at 72k in 2013 & 14, and now 7ES has so far peaked at 51k last year USA.
Meanwhile the more expensive E Class peaked at 50k/year in 2005 & 06, a whopping 69k in 2012 & 13, and the current model has peaked at 49k in its first full year 2017 USA - magnificent sales figures considering the price of E Class.
The 2003-10 5 Series peaked at 56k in 2006, while 2010-17 peaked at 60k in 2012, while the current 2017-23 has so far peaked at 43k in 2018.
Why won't next G80 sell well?
Just my opinion only, but the styling isn't right.
IMHO, it looks like an "oversized" Audi A7 Sportsback liftback with a drooping tail.
Styling is a large part of success.
Of course, the motor vehicle must still be funtional like space, ergonomics, performance, economy, maneuvrebility, handling, ride, NVH, equipment, price, durability and environental friendliness.
It's a nice car but when I look at those pics, I see Mercedes CLS from far away, Audi A7 when I get closer, and Tesla Model 3 when I get inside. Not exactly the same but I get that vibe.
Hey if ur a fan of those 3 cars but can't afford them all, buy the G80 and u have all 3 at once. The side vents and lights are unnecessary and I think it looks better without it.
Ending production of the current GS still does not mean they are permanently killing the GS. I still find it very hard to believe they would just kill the GS as it would put a huge hole in their lineup and it more or less shows Lexus is giving up on the Tier 1 luxury market but this is evident in other moves like giving up on V8's, going lower and lower end, etc. A ES with F Sport badges or awd is not competitive against Mercedes E classes or BMW 5 series and with the new LS being such a dud and disappointment they really need some kind of true luxury sedan that sells or is well received. As far as low sales, they might as well give up on the RC, LC, and LS while they are at it, none of them sell well either, they all sell way less compared to what the GS sold in its run.
The low sales of the GS for the past 4 years or so and less potential sales all together are entirely Lexus's fault, they used carry over engines on a type of vehicle where power/performance is critical, they thought a expensive hybrid V6 could replace a V8 or 400hp 6 cylinder option and failed to act when it was clear it didn't.
I still think and hope Lexus is trying to figure what to do with a mid sized RWD sedan and it may just take a few more years, it will either be a ground up design or come in the way of a mostly re badged Crown. And no I don't think they will be replacing it with a over priced electric that would sell in single digits a month or another hybrid that nobody will buy.
Absolutely, I believe in that plan of down the road and have always said. It's just not happening now nor in the current design cycle of 2-3 years, where production program prototypes are actually being built or full sized mockups ready to be signed off.
What does concern me in a neutral way, is there is possible Mazda involvement. A new RWD, inline 6 powered platform is meant to replace some GA-N vehicles toward 2025-26ish. We'll see how that goes, but nothing is coming in the near future (pre-2023).
I always felt the Lexus GS was the Lexus to have for me always liked the looks of it inside and out, I will miss it, I always had a big heart for the Lexus GS growing up and buying the Motor Trend in 1998 when it won Motor Trend Import Car of The Year at the local newspaper store, even collecting when I some car brochures and ordering them from Lexus.com to be sent to my house. I also remember the first gen was featured in LL Cool J's music video .
Highly doubt that. We would have seen test mules by now. Someone would have seen or heard about it. Toyota has its own race track, but they love testing at the Nurburgring ( who does not ) I think Lexus simply got lost. Ever since they decided to go “sporty” everything went downhill from there.
Thank you for addressing that, because I made my point already and hate going in circles about the obvious.
In working in automotive development for years as a "design" engineer and hopefully soon-to-be junior level executive (lord willing per my MBA and now defended PhD), I've met various Toyota organization people and while many are out of the loop (or pretend to be), they've highlighted 2 model years out is what is accessible in most cases in terms of disclosure..
It varies greatly on 3 model years out. As it stands we are still in the 2020 model year despite a few early 2021 models being out. I have learned about a few MY 2023 or 2024 models before they became known by online public (thanks to slipping it around). The GS or anything replacing it, isn't among that. All I see are obtuse mixups of one central report.
Bclexus is entitled to their outlook, but I'm giving them a heads-up to brace for disappointment, as this cowboy right here knows no GS redesign is ready to go anytime soon and I have a strong lock on product cadences in general.
It is actually BS for anyone to imply that I wouldn't know, so I asked them to point out any Lexus model that went into production without a hint of it existing beforehand. I got no direct answer of course, other than hopes and wishes. That just doesn't work anymore on any level.
People may not hear about something before a reveal, but actual series production? Yeah ******ing right.
The next GS was sacrificed 42 months ago as a compromise to the accountants & board in Japan, as Akio Toyoda's cryptic messages and that of his executive actions strongly tell the whole story.
Since the LFA, he only wants 2-door image cars like RC & LC or easy to engineer bread & butter. Otherwise, he is not prepared to fight the forces within Toyota Jidosha Kabushiki Kaisha, to vouch/advocate for things of little personal interest to him.
LS has always been an afterthought to him, let alone GS. He came to the USA years ago and hopped into a Venza exiting his jet, ditching his on standby chauffered LS 600hL. Look at the LS today, a stylish high quality cost-saving compromise designed not to compete with the S-Class directly.
Ironically in February of 2014, at least 20 different brand new W222 S-Classes were spied at Aichi R&D for benchmarking by a BMW employee involved with A90 Supra development. I wonder what came of that, since LS 500 (XF50) design freeze was that summer?
LS couldn't die, because of 1989, as he's not Carlos Ghosn in that respect (ie Q45). Although he didn't even care to present it at its Detroit reveal, a long 11 years after the last redesign.
If they could kill IS, they might try it. Then make ES into some RLX style flagship and water down LS into a wannabe Panamera.
However, my commonsense still tells me Lexus will have a midsize RWD based replacement especially a full battery powered electric vehicle BEV with the forthcoming dedicated BEV e-TNGA platform available in both RWD and AWD similar to a Tesla Model S by 2024 or 2025 etc.
This year, TMC will begin BEV's with full electric versions of the Toyota CH-R & Lexus UX300e using the traditional ICEV-based GA-C platform in China, with only a very modest driving range of about 200 miles.
Later, TMC will release the dedicated e-TNGA platform as traditional Lion batteries will fall in price, while a rapid breakthrough in solid state battery technology & price will occur with impending release.
Right now, I'm not desperate or itchy fingered enough to buy a BEV.
Just like the 1999 Nikon D1 & the 2003 Canon EOS 300D, the current crop of Teslas are very "unrefined" products, despite being great for the "earlyadopters".
I'd rather TMC take the time to develop BEV's, and give time for BEV technology to improve.
Remember the first dSLR's in the 1999 Nikon D1's and the volume selling 2003 Canon EOS 300D? They are rubbish digital camera technology by today's standards...
In the old days, Camry and ES shared the Toyota K Platform and drivelines.
Today, Camry and ES share the TNGA GA-K platform and drivelines.
.
Thanks for providing evidence to support the rumor I started. lets see what happens in 2025!
The next GS was sacrificed 42 months ago as a compromise to the accountants & board in Japan, as Akio Toyoda's cryptic messages and that of his executive actions strongly tell the whole story.
Since the LFA, he only wants 2-door image cars like RC & LC or easy to engineer bread & butter. Otherwise, he is not prepared to fight the forces within Toyota Jidosha Kabushiki Kaisha, to vouch/advocate for things of little personal interest to him.
LS has always been an afterthought to him, let alone GS. He came to the USA years ago and hopped into a Venza exiting his jet, ditching his on standby chauffered LS 600hL. Look at the LS today, a stylish high quality cost-saving compromise designed not to compete with the S-Class directly.
Ironically in February of 2014, at least 20 different brand new W222 S-Classes were spied at Aichi R&D for benchmarking by a BMW employee involved with A90 Supra development. I wonder what came of that, since LS 500 (XF50) design freeze was that summer?
LS couldn't die, because of 1989, as he's not Carlos Ghosn in that respect (ie Q45). Although he didn't even care to present it at its Detroit reveal, a long 11 years after the last redesign.
If they could kill IS, they might try it. Then make ES into some RLX style flagship and water down LS into a wannabe Panamera.
Sounds like President Akio wants to turn Lexus into another Acura?
Originally Posted by peasodos
Thanks for providing evidence to support the rumor I started. lets see what happens in 2025!
I'm confident Lexus will have a midsize RWD BEV, because electrification is the future of motoring.
However, Carmaker1 is right that such an e-TNGA midsize RWD BEV will not really replace the GS in the short term, but more likely the forthcoming gasoline-powered Mazda 6 Midsize 4 Door Coupe Platform with a 48 V mild hybrid in-line six and RWD.
Such a 5GS could share platforms and drivelines with Mazda as a stop gap to save $$$.
5GS traditionally sharing platforms and drivelines with Toyota's very own JDM Crown could save even more $$$, but I guess sharing with Mazda gives TMC access to a 48V Mild Hybrid 3.0 in-line six!
The in-line six will give greater bottom end torque & greater genuine smoothness at idle & on revving, though at the expense of shorter cabin length.
The old 2005-12 3GS was in production from January 2005 till December 2011.
The current 2012 4GS is in production from December 2011 till August 2020.
These are "calendar years".
The December 2011-Onwards 4GS was called a 2013 GS in terms of US "model years" first popularized by GM's late Alfred P. Sloan for marketing reasons - to build in obsolescence to encourage consumers to upgrade their motor vehicles.
It is all about the SUV period. This is where the money is at and this is were Lexus will continue to go. They already have 3 sedans and they all fill the demographics. It is obvious that Lexus did not care for the GS once it got past 5/6 years. They did not even try to update the technology and the efficiency and performance of the engine in order to at least hide some of the shortcomings of the car. Undoubtedly, it is a beautiful and super reliable car, but in today's market (actually starting with the 2018 model year), it has become an afterthought for those looking for the latest and the greatest the same way it became an afterthought for Toyota. The car needed to be killed. The fact that they are not coming out with a new GS might be a blessing for them. The economic conditions for the next few years look pretty bleak and holding on might be wise. Perhaps in 2 to 4 years, they will relaunch a new GS. I believe the car will continue to sell well in the aftermarket place. It is a Lexus and without a doubt, the car continues to age well along with the supreme reliability Lexus is known for.
The next GS was sacrificed 42 months ago as a compromise to the accountants & board in Japan, as Akio Toyoda's cryptic messages and that of his executive actions strongly tell the whole story.
Since the LFA, he only wants 2-door image cars like RC & LC or easy to engineer bread & butter. Otherwise, he is not prepared to fight the forces within Toyota Jidosha Kabushiki Kaisha, to vouch/advocate for things of little personal interest to him.
LS has always been an afterthought to him, let alone GS. He came to the USA years ago and hopped into a Venza exiting his jet, ditching his on standby chauffered LS 600hL. Look at the LS today, a stylish high quality cost-saving compromise designed not to compete with the S-Class directly.
Ironically in February of 2014, at least 20 different brand new W222 S-Classes were spied at Aichi R&D for benchmarking by a BMW employee involved with A90 Supra development. I wonder what came of that, since LS 500 (XF50) design freeze was that summer?
LS couldn't die, because of 1989, as he's not Carlos Ghosn in that respect (ie Q45). Although he didn't even care to present it at its Detroit reveal, a long 11 years after the last redesign.
If they could kill IS, they might try it. Then make ES into some RLX style flagship and water down LS into a wannabe Panamera.
Sounds mostly like theory but if that is true then he is going to ruin the Lexus brand, he already has/is ruining the brand/lineup in many ways and he really needs to go then, people need to act before he does too much damage not counting what he has already done. That ugly new ES is no GS replacement or IS replacement for that matter if they decide to kill the IS too. LS500 is a huge disappointment and dud and sales reflect that.
04-24-20, 03:17 PM
Not exactly the same but I get that vibe.
) I think Lexus simply got lost. Ever since they decided to go “sporty” everything went downhill from there.
