ViperTim

my 2013 has power trunk lid. And Im not sure if I like it. Its ooooh sooooo sloooow....

Byt Im glad it doesnt have full LED lights. Seems like LED lights tend to break during Swedish winters and our otherwise quite harsh conditions.
LED taillight vs incandescent bulb. Which is the most expensive?

signdetres

Wow, really interesting findings. Wonder what the reasoning is behind all the different versions... As far as the GS200t, I'd bet the firewall insulation is the same, the difference being that the 200t motor doesn't have the sound generator. The difference is drastic enough that I 100% believe it could give the impression that the 200t has significantly more sound insulation.

peteharvey

I found out that the suspension used across the 4GS Series is essentially the same with the same part numbers.

I will not talk about the GRL11 GS250 2.5 V6 which was available for a very short time overseas etc.
I will not talk about the base model with non-electronic front shock absorber valving.
Nor will I talk about the AWD with codes GRL15 for the 4GS AWD original and GRL16 for the 4.5 AWD refreshed.

The GRL10 is the 4GS original, while the GRL12 is the 4.5GS mid-life refresh.
The ARL10 is the 4.5GS with 2.0 Turbo as 4.5GS200t/300.

The Luxury and F Sport shared the same electronic variable valving front shock absorbers; however do remember that the software mapping for Luxury and F Sport is different.

From Dec 2011 to Oct 2014 [eg Steve's 4GS], 4GS350's used front left coil spring 30C90.
However, he probably wasn't aware that by Oct 2014 to Oct 2015, this changed to 30C91.
Then came the Oct 2015 to Aug 2020 4.5GS mid-life refresh which used 30E90 in both the ARL10 4.5GS200t/300 and the GRL12 4.5GS350.

Me, I changed from my 2015 OEM's 30C91 to 30C90, but I honestly could not tell the difference between the spring rates; they both felt about the same to me - may be due to lack of time testing the two back to back.
In 2017, I did test drive the 4.5GS200t.
However, once again I couldn't really tell the difference between the Dec 2011 to Oct 2014 80375's and the Oct 2015 to Aug 2020's 30E90 - they seemed about the same to me - all three seemed to be very firm riding and terse to me - probably because there wasn't much difference between all three, or I am not able to test drive them for long enough.


With the front left electronic variable valve shock absorbers used by Luxury and F Sport, the story is different.

Dec 2011 to Jan 2014 used 80285.
Jan 2014 to Sep 2014 used 80375.
Sep 2014 to Oct 2014 used 80401.
Oct 2014 to Oct 2015 used 80442 on GRL10 4GS350 originals.
Oct 2015 to Aug 2020 used 80465 on ARL10 4.5GS200t [300] and GRL12 4.5GS350 mid-life refreshed.

Many people confuse springs with shock absorbers.
The springs compress to give a smooth flat ride, and resist lateral roll and longitudinal pitching.
After a spring compresses, it will bob and down called "floating" for a long long time until the energy is dissipated in the intermolecular friction inside the coils.
On the other hand, the shock absorbers provide body "control" to dissipate the energy as heat inside the oil.
Little body control floats, provides low frequency of oscillation comfort, but bobs up and down all over the place.
While too much body control has a lack of float, has very good body control, no floating all over the place, but the high frequency of vertical oscillations results in a tiring ride.

My 2015 OEM 80442 front left shock absorbers had too much control; great for sports performance, and combined with OEM 19" Dunlop SP Sport Maxx 050, it handled almost like a compact, but too much body control by the shock absorbers resulted in a "tiring" ride.
I changed to my friend's Jan 2014 to Sep 2014 80375 shock absorbers, and immediately a beautiful soft body control; there was still body control, but more floatiness - though not saying that it floats like Mike Marshall's Chevvy Bel Air.
The wording used to express ride can be very subjective.

I have test driven the very original Dec 2011 to Jan 2014 4GS's that used the 80285, but it was so long ago, however I do remember it had a nice ride.
Steve LS who says that 4GS has a nice ride probably had an early 4GS with these 80285 front left electronic shock absorbers, though I don't know what month nor year his 4GS was built.

In 2017, I test drove ARL10 4.5GS200t, and their Oct 2015 to Aug 2020 80465 front left shock absorbers feel about the same as my current Jan 2014 to Sep 2014 80375's, though I may not have test driven both back to back for long enough.

It seems to me that the 4GS's shock absorbers reached a firm peak in Oct 2014 to Oct 2015 with the 80442's, then they softened again like earlier versions of 4GS, though they did not actually use earlier version part numbers.

Overall, I am very happy with my Jan 2014 to Sep 2014 80875 front left shock absorbers, though I wish my front coil springs were much more "compliant", that is they compress more easily for a smoother and flatter ride; presently I personally feel that my front coils are too terse, and tend to ride over the bump, rather than flattening the bump out.
In my opinion, Lexus should have used softer front coil springs for the Luxury trim, while reserving the firmer coil springs for the F Sport trim.
After all, what is the point of having Luxury vs F Sport trims?

If I say to myself, Peter this is NOT a luxury car, this is a sporting luxury car with a 50/50 handling/ride balance, then I feel much better about the way my 4GS rides.
When I forget to remind myself that 4GS is a sporting luxury car, the 4GS's ride over bad roads annoy me.

In my experience, it is interesting how 1992-96 2ES, 1996-01 3ES, 1998-05 3GS and 2012-20 4GS - ALL upgrade their suspension by beefing up the springs, yet using soft shock absorbers; the firm springing minimizes weight transfer to the outside wheels to maximize front end grip, while the soft damping provides the comfort.
On the other hand, 2003-10 BMW 5 Series and 2005-12 BMW 3 Series M Sports - used soft compliant springing to flatten out the bumps, while very firm damping is used for body float control resulting in a hunkered down ride.
I guess both techniques are different, and neither technique is perfect.


Many years ago, there were similar threads about how the old 2012-18 Lexus 6ES in Ultra-Luxury trim used different suspension part numbers together with 18" alloy wheels, and of the effects on the handling/ride balance.


The other thing about the 2017 4.5GS200t is that the idle was both much smoother and much quieter than my 2015 GS350.
Hence I suspect the 4.5 midlife refreshes may have much better sound insulation and even superior engine mounts.
However, like you say, it could just be that the 2.0 Turbo makes less noise and less vibration than the 3.5 V6 to begin with.

When I cruised along, I didn't really notice that the refreshed 2017 4.5GS200t's were any quieter than the original 2015 GS350's, though this could be easily due to inadequate test driving time, or may be it was quieter, but only a little quieter, so hard to tell.
4.5GS midlife refresh does have thousands of laser spot welds more than original 4GS etc.
Only someone like you who simultaneously owns both the original F Sport and the midlife refreshed F Sport can compare back to back and comment properly...


Dec 2011 to Oct 2014 30C90 front left coil used by 4GS350.




Oct 2014 to Oct 2015 30C91 front left coils used by 4GS350.




Oct 2015- Aug 2020 30E90 front left coils used by 4.5GS200t [nee 300] and 4.5GS350.

signdetres

Hard to make a direct comparison here. If you recall the thread about dual pane glass and how it seemed like GS' were equipped at random with them... this is the case here too. Our 2015 GS has the dual pane front glass, our 2018 GS does not, so there are minor differences in where the sound comes from. Both are very quiet though. Hard to say which is quieter overall though. If our 4.5GS also had the dual panes or if neither of them had them, I have a feeling 4.5GS would be a tiny bit quieter as a whole.

The FKS engine and direct injection noise is definitely reduced over the FSE engine. It's noticeably more whiny/higher-pitched.

JDR76

My 19 is definitely quieter than my 15 was. Substantially so.

Both with dual pane windows.

tomex77

iTrader: (1)

Same here. I have a 15. The nav split was bothering me. I did a swap to the 16 radio and screen. Now I have full screen nav.

NickMayer

I know it has been done before, but what was your process? You do it yourself and if so how difficult was it?

JDR76

I can't say the split screen on my 15 ever bothered me. I thought the benefit of having the 12.3" screen was that you could still have a lot of map space, even when also viewing radio or other data on the right.

My 19 can, of course, go full screen but I pretty much never use it. I always have something showing on the right.

NickMayer

While I can see that, the better resolution alone had me with screen envy. Not to mention, my '15 has VERY limited data that it can show on the right side. I had a '16 ES before this and I miss the data available on the main screen (and the gauge cluster for that matter).

I generally just leave up the map at all times, but I do like having data on the right, usually trip data.

peteharvey

I have a 2015 4GS Luxury, and I recently test drove a 2016 4.5GS Luxury.
Absolutely unbelievable!

The refreshed model has more engine sound insulation so it idles more quietly, and is more quiet under wide throttle openings.
The coil springs are now so much softer!
The original coil springs on 2012-15 4GS Luxury feels rigid, terse and non-compliant, whereas the 2016 refreshed 4.5GS Luxury feels so compliant!
The damping on both are about the same.
I wish manufacturers would point out if refreshed models have revised suspension.
My parents probably can't tell the difference, but for a sensitive person like me, it is like night and day.

Just pure bad luck really.
I purchased at a time when President Akio took over the reigns of TMC, and he wanted more inspired styling and more inspired dynamics, with the no more boring cars formula.
Then customer feedback or whatever must have caused TMC to once again return to softened suspension with decent sound insulation.

CLuser

haven’t driven any GSs besides my own, but I like the suspension setup of my 13 lux, firm but fairly compliant. Feels like how a luxury sports sedan should, comfy enough in normal mode, and a bit stiffer in sport plus when I want to drive like a maniac. It still feels pretty compliant in sport plus, really.

plex

iTrader: (11)

Great thread, I will be in the market soon for a 4GS as a daily, I'm not very familiar with the 4GS other than the forums here but I'm reading and learning. I will go for a 16 plus AWD, F Sport isn't a deal-breaker for me still looking to see what the differences are.

JDR76

When I moved from a pre-refresh to a refreshed model, it was the sounds that seemed most striking to me. The engine itself has a much better sound. I can't really hear the DI ticking that was so loud on my 15, and there is clearly more sound insulation as it's all so much more muted. It's a huge difference.

As far as suspension is concerned, my newer ones have felt very solid and comfortable, but softer, yet they still handle everything I throw at them so the handling is still fantastic. I think it was a huge improvement, though definitely not all will agree.

703

I am running the 13 GSH with 17”. It is so compliant when I drove a 14 GSH F Sport I can’t help but notice how jarring it was with the 19”.

I was going to upgrade to the F Sport but the ride stopped me.

Now there is a 16 GSH for sale I’ll go take a look.

peteharvey

Unbelievable.

Regarding the GS350 RWD, from 2013-15 4GS to 2016-20 4.5GS:

The 2015 30C91 front coils were replaced by 30E90 front coils; though from 2019 onwards, 30E91 front coils were used!
The 30C80 rear coils were replaced by 30F20 rear coils.
The 30800 front roll bars were replaced by 30840 front roll bars.
The front left 442 and front right 765 shock absorbers, were replaced by 465 front left and 789 front right shock absorbers.
The 80756 rear shock absorbers, were replaced by 80779 rear shock absorbers.

Only the 30070 rear roll bars stayed the same till some time in 05/2017.
From 01/2018 onwards, the 4.5GS actually changed to 30571 rear roll bars.


What’s interesting is that the F Sport and Luxury used the same suspension part numbers.
Perhaps more interesting is that the GS200t/300 2.0T used the same suspension part numbers as the GS350 V6 RWD.
The AWD and the GS450h - especially the AWD – use different suspension part numbers to the GS350 RWD.
.