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As many of us have noted, Sport S+ in particular feels much more aggressive on the 13-15 models than on the refreshed models. We also know that, at least when the 4GS debuted, the Luxury models and F Sport models used different AVS programming, where it was more aggressive on the F Sport. Since moving to the 4.5GS, I have often wondered if, when they did the refresh, they didn't just move all AVS equipped GSs to the Luxury programming.
I drove another 2016-20 4.5GS350 RWD, but this time a much longer drive.
This one had the OEM Dunlop SP Sport Maxx 050 tires.
Now I have a better idea.
The 2016-20 4.5GS is not a softly suspended car by any means.
It is still a firmly suspended car - rigid, terse, and riding over the bumps - rather than actually flattening the bumps out.
The 4.5GS is still no E Class nor 5 Series nor A6 in the softness of the coil springs.
However, unlike the original 2015-15 4GS, the 2016-20 4.5GS is a little softer - the spring & roll bar rates have been dialed down just a little - such that it rides more pleasantly, with less shock, less harshness on bad roads, and less creaking and rattling around the cabin too.
Again I couldn't really tell the difference in the damping rates.
The 4.5GS didn't feel floatier with less body control, nor more tied down/hunkered down with more or too much body control.
The OEM Dunlops were their usual sharper riding, with more noise.
Again, the 4.5GS seemed to have a smoother idle, more sound insulation, quieter at idle, and quieter under acceleration.
4.5GS may have a smidgin more bottom end torque - or it could be just my imagination.
The overall engine note was very similar.
My 16H on 18’s rides nice. It’s not a 60’s Caddy soft because it’s a sport sedan but I wouldn’t call it jarring.
Just before I purchased my 2015 GS350 RWD, there was no GS350 available for test drive on that day, and ONLY an used 2012-14 [I don't know exactly which year] GS450h Luxury available for test drive.
It had the old 18" 9x split spoke alloy wheels.
It rode beautifully - and convinced me to purchase the 2015 in RWD.
When I got the GS350 RWD, it was surprizingly firm riding - although it did handle almost like a compact sedan!
Only later did I find out that depending on its build date from December 2011 to October 2015, the original GS350 RWD had four different suspension calibrations!
On close examination, the GS450h shared the same suspension components as the GS350 RWD, but the hybrid used its own front and rear coil springs, and that could be why the 2012-14 GS450h I test drove had such a nice ride.
Meanwhile, the AWD version not only used its own springs and shock absorbers, but the AWD also used its own front roll bar, though I have never test driven the AWD version myself.
Now I understand why Steve and I used to have different opinions regarding 4GS's ride - because he had the early AWD version, while I had the 2015 RWD version - with different suspension part numbers.
The only suspension commonality between the RWD and AWD is just the rear roll bar.
Below are part numbers for the Luxury and F Sports trims; the Base trim has non-electronic shock absorbers not listed below.
The 2.0 Turbos use the same suspension part numbers as the 3.5 V6 RWD.
This topic has come up many times over the years. It seems like a lot of people want to know what the differences are between the earlier versions of the GS (2013-2015) and the newer updated versions (2016-2020). We have both a 2015 and 2018 in our household, both F-Sports, so I thought I'd share my thoughts focusing on how the 2 cars differ in the way they drive and feel. There are a lot of differences throughout the exterior, interior, and technology aspects of the cars but this post will be focusing solely on how they feel to drive.
Lexus has been pretty silent over the years on what they've done to differentiate the newer model from the older model, leaving many to think the changes are purely cosmetic. From my experience with both cars, this is NOT the case whatsoever. The original 4GS and the updated 4GS are very different cars with very different personalities.
2013-2015 GS
2016-2020 GS
Some general takeaways between the two cars: (I'll refer to the 2013-2015 GS as 4GS. I'll refer to the 2016-2020 GS as 4.5GS)
4GS feels lighter on its feet than 4.5GS with more road feel and feels far more connected to the road.
4.5GS is noticeably more detached and isolated from the road, though retains just as much composure and control as 4GS.
4GS feels like you're driving a bigger IS.
4.5GS feels like you're driving a smaller LS.
4.5GS body structure is stronger and stiffer due to many manufacturing changes and you feel this when driving, when opening and closing the doors, etc.
4.5GS has a feeling of heft and solidity that 4GS lacks (relative to 4.5GS).
4GS ride quality is more jittery than 4.5GS. You feel a lot more road imperfections.
4.5GS has a much smoother and more isolated ride. It seems as though 4GS has stiffer springs or 4.5GS electronic dampers have a wider range of variability than 4GS.
4.5GS with the new FKS motor feels more lively, more responsive, and more eager to rev. The new motor also has a much louder & more aggressive intake sound than 4GS. Overall, it feels like a much more modern powertrain with great response and power delivery.
4GS with the FKE motor comparatively feels more generic/bland, less eager to rev/get going and feels a little bit more dated in that it has much less character in how it responds and in how it sounds. Engine/intake sound is more muted and less aggressive than 4.5GS with the FKS motor.
Other members who have experienced both cars, please feel free to add your thoughts below.
From January 2018, the GS range finally got new rear roll bars; the same new rear roll bar used across the range!
While from February 2020, the GS RWD and AWD each scored their own new set of front and rear coil springs.
Only the hybrid missed out, though the hybrid may have been discontinued by this late stage.
I wonder if the new rear roll bars and the new front and rear coils became softer again???
Or was it too soft, and they decided to firm it up again?
Unreal data there @peteharvey did you compile that yourself? This needs to be stickied, not lost to time.
I wonder whether the 4 different types of shocks between 2014 and 2015 were due to parts shortages from KYB (resulting in different OEM numbers) or design changes. Seems un-Toyota to be so indecisive!
For what it's worth, all years RWD shocks and springs are still available from my supplier with the exception of the 4.7 springs.
Unreal data there @peteharvey did you compile that yourself? This needs to be stickied, not lost to time.
I wonder whether the 4 different types of shocks between 2014 and 2015 were due to parts shortages from KYB (resulting in different OEM numbers) or design changes. Seems un-Toyota to be so indecisive!
For what it's worth, all years RWD shocks and springs are still available from my supplier with the exception of the 4.7 springs.
I just used lexuspartsnow.com; this website is great for finding out part numbers.
I have a 1996-01 3ES, and back in those days, I knew from reading car magazines that the ES had heavy duty sports suspension compared to the Camry, hence I noticed that my friend's Toyota Camries drove much more softly and smoothly than my 3ES.
Around about 2005, my Lexus dealer replaced my 3ES with Camry springs, shock absorbers and roll bars.
Now, my 3ES on Camry suspension, seemed to roll more and float more, but was much smoother riding.
I noticed that my 2015 GS350 rode much more firmly than my friend's 2014 GS350.
Hence my local dealer retrofitted the front coil springs and front shocks from the early 2014 model, comprizing of 30C90 front coils and 80375/80679 left/right front shocks to my 2015 GS.
At that time, the dealer told me that the rears were the same, so my rear suspension was not retrofitted, however my research now shows that early 2014, the GS350 RWD's used different part numbers ending in 80711.
Handling and ride is very subjective.
In my opinion, I couldn't really tell any difference between my original 2015 30C91 front coils, versus retrofitting the early 2014 30C90 front coils; both coils seem pretty firm, and ride over the bumps, rather than flattening the bumps out - hence like you say, maybe 2015's 30C91 front coils might be the exact same spring rate, but different suppliers?
However, my original 2015 front shock absorbers are too tied down with hi frequency vertical oscillations, and not enough low frequency comfortable float, compared to the retrofitted early 2014 front shock absorbers.
My retrofitted early 2014 front shock absorbers ride so much better, but the compact-like handling is gone, though it still handles very well.
I have a feeling the early 2014 GS350 RWD using 80711 rear shock absorbers may be floatier and more comfortable?
The 2016 GS350 RWD's that I test drove last week seems to have slightly softer springs and roll bars for slightly greater flattening out of the bumps, however their shock absorber floatiness feels about the same, despite using totally different part numbers for the shock absorbers.
Would be really interesting to see how February 2020 onwards GS350 RWD drives, because it has totally different part numbers for front and rear coils, while January 2018 introduced a new rear roll bar...
Below is a 2015 GS350 RWD front pair of coils versus the 2019-20 GS350 RWD front pair of coils.
The 2015's 48131-30C91 averaged 14.22 mm in coil diameter, while the 2019-20's 48131-30E91 averaged only 13.67 mm in coil diameter with a Vernier gauge; meaning that the 2019-20 has a 0.55 mm thinner coil diameter for a softer spring rate.
I'm not sure why the very small variation in the diameter of the coils; maybe inconsistent thickness when soaked into paint?
By the same token, the 2015's front coils have an unsprung height of 340.5 mm to the 2019-20's unsprung height of 366.0 mm; meaning that the newer 2019-20 has a full inch 25.4 mm more unsprung length in its coil, and this makes sense considering its softer spring rate - the softer coil must be longer unloaded, otherwise upon loading, the softer coil will have a lower ride height.
For handling, best go 2015 springs and shock absorbers, which are even firmer than the original 2013 springs and shock absorbers.
For ride comfort, best go for 2016-18 springs and shock absorbers, which are even softer than the 2019-20 springs; the 2016-20 all used the same front roll bar and shock absorbers.
Below is a 2015 GS350 RWD front pair of coils versus the 2019-20 GS350 RWD front pair of coils.
The 2015's 48131-30C91 averaged 14.22 mm in coil diameter, while the 2019-20's 48131-30E91 averaged only 13.67 mm in coil diameter with a Vernier gauge; meaning that the 2019-20 has a 0.55 mm thinner coil diameter for a softer spring rate.
I'm not sure why the very small variation in the diameter of the coils; maybe inconsistent thickness when soaked into paint?
By the same token, the 2015's front coils have an unsprung height of 340.5 mm to the 2019-20's unsprung height of 366.0 mm; meaning that the newer 2019-20 has a full inch 25.4 mm more unsprung length in its coil, and this makes sense considering its softer spring rate - the softer coil must be longer unloaded, otherwise upon loading, the softer coil will have a lower ride height.
For handling, best go 2015 springs and shock absorbers, which are even firmer than the original 2013 springs and shock absorbers.
For ride comfort, best go for 2016-18 springs and shock absorbers, which are even softer than the 2019-20 springs; the 2016-20 all used the same front roll bar and shock absorbers.
Interesting! I know all the general suspension parts/components but getting into more detail and learning more is cool.
Just a question, are those all brand new coils or was one set used and one new? The ones on the left didn't quite look as "new" as the ones on the right at first.
11-20-20, 09:18 AM
