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Unfortunately, he was working OT yesterday and the next few days and won't be able to look at the car before I have my appt with the dealership tomorrow. My gut feeling is similar to yours, that my specific problem may not be due to a servo malfunction, but due to an electrical malfunction as a result of changing the battery. That's why when I first noticed it, I tried to disconnect the battery in an attempt to get the system to "reset."
But after I saw the campaign, I thought it might be related as well. At this point, i'm not sure how it will all go tomorrow, but I won't know until they perform their diagnostic analysis (which I imagine isn't much different than that useful vid you posted). They are willing to give me a loaner as it appears they are busy and it may take them some time to get it all sorted out based on their schedule.
I certainly don't mind if they fix it under the support program, but i'm not trying to cheat them either. If they say it doesn't align with the servo motor campaign and they need to recalibrate the system and it takes 15min, great and i'll pay the diagnostic fee plus whatever they up-charge to do the recalibration. If its something more involved and they want to charge me thousands, i'll decline the service, pay my diagnostic fee and potentially seek out time from my personal mechanic.
I totally understand your view, and agree with your decision going-forward if it becomes necessary. Please let us know how it goes...
It's a shame that your A/C problem didn't begin when you last visited the dealership for service. If that had been the case I suspect they'd do a quick diagnosis and then reinitialize (reset) the A/C at no-charge - maybe even just do the reinitialize without doing a diagnosis. I'm guessing that they cause these types of problems from time-to-time and then have to fix it later...and half the time they have no idea what caused the problem.
Dealership is stating that its not my servo motors at all - they are saying there is a leak in my AC line. Its especially strange to me that my car has such a leak as its a very uncommon problem, but they will replace a bad O-Ring, add UV dye and freon. My car has no history (prior to my ownership) and during my ownership of any AC issues.
Nonetheless, the cost is just over $500 for them to fix it.
Dealership is stating that its not my servo motors at all - they are saying there is a leak in my AC line. Its especially strange to me that my car has such a leak as its a very uncommon problem, but they will replace a bad O-Ring, add UV dye and freon. My car has no history (prior to my ownership) and during my ownership of any AC issues.
Nonetheless, the cost is just over $500 for them to fix it.
That kinda makes sense a little Freon and the Cooling function. $500 is $500 but could have been way worst when you are talking A/C repairs. Funny when I asked you about the Compressor that it was still kicking in. Must have still had enough to kick in a engage the Clutch but not Cool? I think it has a function to not engage the Clutch if not enough Freon in the system or too much in there. If I remember correctly that system uses a very, very small amount of Freon.
Did you Manually cut the a/c off for the whole Winter?
That kinda makes sense a little Freon and the Cooling function. $500 is $500 but could have been way worst when you are talking A/C repairs. Funny when I asked you about the Compressor that it was still kicking in. Must have still had enough to kick in a engage the Clutch but not Cool? I think it has a function to not engage the Clutch if not enough Freon in the system or too much in there. If I remember correctly that system uses a very, very small amount of Freon.
Did you Manually cut the a/c off for the whole Winter?
Yep I usually deselect the "AC On" option to keep the AC off all winter. It's been off since October 2020.
The more revealing problem was that none of air out of my vents would get cold-they only would go down to about 70 degrees.
I was hoping just a reinitialization of servo motors would do the trick but unfortunately that's not the case for me.
Dealership is stating that its not my servo motors at all - they are saying there is a leak in my AC line. Its especially strange to me that my car has such a leak as its a very uncommon problem, but they will replace a bad O-Ring, add UV dye and freon. My car has no history (prior to my ownership) and during my ownership of any AC issues.
Nonetheless, the cost is just over $500 for them to fix it.
That is truly highly unusual for a Toyota or Lexus A/C to leak refrigerant from a failed O-ring. That is what Ford's A/C system's have a reputation of doing for decades.
What is the breakdown for the repairs - diagnosis fee plus parts and labor? I'm guessing the total charge is about twice what an independent shop would have charged.
At least you didn't have to have your dash taken apart to replace servos!
Yep I usually deselect the "AC On" option to keep the AC off all winter. It's been off since October 2020.
The more revealing problem was that none of air out of my vents would get cold-they only would go down to about 70 degrees.
I was hoping just a reinitialization of servo motors would do the trick but unfortunately that's not the case for me.
An A/C system should never need refrigerant be added since it is a closed-loop configuration. That's true of a house or vehicle A/C or a refrigerator or freezer. But the system needs to be used to keep seals and O-ring lubricated with the oils in the refrigerant. For that reason it is recommended that the A/C be kept on 'Auto' year round regardless of climate conditions. You shouldn't ever feel the effects of the A/C system remaining in 'Auto' during cold weather.
It could very well be that even during months of cold ambient temperatures (where the A/C is not needed) that the car's A/C system (when left in 'Auto' mode) makes sure the refrigerant is circulated for a few seconds every so often. That would be a good thing! The reason why is because when anything that uses refrigerant in which the refrigerant is not circulated periodically it has a tendency to leak-out due to seals and O-rings failing. You may have heard about or experienced yourself how a refrigerator or freezer that has been sitting unused for a period of time has had its refrigerant leak out.
Yep I usually deselect the "AC On" option to keep the AC off all winter. It's been off since October 2020.
The more revealing problem was that none of air out of my vents would get cold-they only would go down to about 70 degrees.
I was hoping just a reinitialization of servo motors would do the trick but unfortunately that's not the case for me.
That's why I was asking. Its said that you should run your a/c systems a few times during the Winter. I kinda thought the Servos were not the problem based on the lack of Cooling air and what you explained was your specific problem. BTW: that Freon also contains Oil, its the Oil that does Lubrication. Could be the NY Climate and lack of Oil circulating did it in somewhere? But I don't know.
I still find it odd the the A/C Compressor Clutch was turning on????? Be glad it was Not the Compressor itself, that is a $2k plus Job at least at Lexus anyway. Hopefully that's all they find.
That is truly highly unusual for a Toyota or Lexus A/C to leak refrigerant from a failed O-ring. That is what Ford's A/C system's have a reputation of doing for decades.
What is the breakdown for the repairs - diagnosis fee plus parts and labor? I'm guessing the total charge is about twice what an independent shop would have charged.
At least you didn't have to have your dash taken apart to replace servos!
My personal mechanic used to have his own shop but recently started working as a mechanic for the NYPD. They are asking him to do tons of overtime so unfortunately he isn't able to get his schedule aligned with me at a reasonable time to have helped diagnose things.
You're correct in terms of pricing: My guy feels like the repair would have been roughly $200 at an independent shop as o-rings and dye/refrigerant are cheap (if thats even the real issue - he's skeptical of the dealership's assessment, but he said no way to know at this point). He would have likely called a contact of his to get it done but since my car was already getting diagnosed and the timing just didn't work out well, i'm coughing-up the $$$ to the lexus dealership.
Originally Posted by bclexus
An A/C system should never need refrigerant be added since it is a closed-loop configuration. That's true of a house or vehicle A/C or a refrigerator or freezer. But the system needs to be used to keep seals and O-ring lubricated with the oils in the refrigerant. For that reason it is recommended that the A/C be kept on 'Auto' year round regardless of climate conditions. You shouldn't ever feel the effects of the A/C system remaining in 'Auto' during cold weather.
It could very well be that even during months of cold ambient temperatures (where the A/C is not needed) that the car's A/C system (when left in 'Auto' mode) makes sure the refrigerant is circulated for a few seconds every so often. That would be a good thing! The reason why is because when anything that uses refrigerant in which the refrigerant is not circulated periodically it has a tendency to leak-out due to seals and O-rings failing. You may have heard about or experienced yourself how a refrigerator or freezer that has been sitting unused for a period of time has had its refrigerant leak out.
Absolutely agreed. This is the first time any Lexus i've owned has ever had such a problem but it is certainly the most technologically advanced car i've owned. That doesn't mean the AC issue can't happen its just the luck of the draw when you don't have any warranties left!
I've had things pop up on my toyota/lexus cars over the years: '92 camry had minor engine timing/exhaust issues before I got rid of it; my GS430 had a bad heater core and 2 bad catalytic convertors after 90k miles; my 2011 IS350 i only owned for a year but with no issues except for an internal headlamp bubbling issue (fixed under TSB).
This is the most expensive repair i've had to perform on my 4GS. Note: The most expensive fix i've ever had on any car was the catalytic convertors that went bad on the GS430. Interestingly, none of my aforementioned previous cars ever had an issue with the air conditioning system.
My personal mechanic used to have his own shop but recently started working as a mechanic for the NYPD. They are asking him to do tons of overtime so unfortunately he isn't able to get his schedule aligned with me at a reasonable time to have helped diagnose things.
You're correct in terms of pricing: My guy feels like the repair would have been roughly $200 at an independent shop as o-rings and dye/refrigerant are cheap (if thats even the real issue - he's skeptical of the dealership's assessment, but he said no way to know at this point). He would have likely called a contact of his to get it done but since my car was already getting diagnosed and the timing just didn't work out well, i'm coughing-up the $$$ to the lexus dealership.
Absolutely agreed. This is the first time any Lexus i've owned has ever had such a problem but it is certainly the most technologically advanced car i've owned. That doesn't mean the AC issue can't happen its just the luck of the draw when you don't have any warranties left!
I've had things pop up on my toyota/lexus cars over the years: '92 camry had minor engine timing/exhaust issues before I got rid of it; my GS430 had a bad heater core and 2 bad catalytic convertors after 90k miles; my 2011 IS350 i only owned for a year but with no issues except for an internal headlamp bubbling issue (fixed under TSB).
This is the most expensive repair i've had to perform on my 4GS. Note: The most expensive fix i've ever had on any car was the catalytic convertors that went bad on the GS430. Interestingly, none of my aforementioned previous cars ever had an issue with the air conditioning system.
Living in NY with the weather conditions, road salt, potholes, etc. your vehicles are going to be exposed to things that require more repairs and replacements than vehicles driven in more car-friendly environments.
My personal mechanic used to have his own shop but recently started working as a mechanic for the NYPD. They are asking him to do tons of overtime so unfortunately he isn't able to get his schedule aligned with me at a reasonable time to have helped diagnose things.
You're correct in terms of pricing: My guy feels like the repair would have been roughly $200 at an independent shop as o-rings and dye/refrigerant are cheap (if thats even the real issue - he's skeptical of the dealership's assessment, but he said no way to know at this point). He would have likely called a contact of his to get it done but since my car was already getting diagnosed and the timing just didn't work out well, i'm coughing-up the $$$ to the lexus dealership.
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Absolutely agreed. This is the first time any Lexus i've owned has ever had such a problem but it is certainly the most technologically advanced car i've owned. That doesn't mean the AC issue can't happen its just the luck of the draw when you don't have any warranties left!
I've had things pop up on my toyota/lexus cars over the years: '92 camry had minor engine timing/exhaust issues before I got rid of it; my GS430 had a bad heater core and 2 bad catalytic convertors after 90k miles; my 2011 IS350 i only owned for a year but with no issues except for an internal headlamp bubbling issue (fixed under TSB).
This is the most expensive repair i've had to perform on my 4GS. Note: The most expensive fix i've ever had on any car was the catalytic convertors that went bad on the GS430. Interestingly, none of my aforementioned previous cars ever had an issue with the air conditioning system.
You are not living in the most car-friendly environment with the NYC weather conditions, salt, potholes, street parking, local habits, etc.
Well, let's hope the dealership's diagnosis and analysis was correct and it's now fixed and doesn't cause any more problems. (There is no need to ever turn Off the A/C's compressor. I would recommend leaving the A/C compressor On and leave the system in 'Auto' mode year-round.)
The above parking in NYC will drive OCD owners in states like Florida, Southern California and Texas absolutely crazy!
Update: I got my car back from the dealer and the AC is working well. In my case, unfortunately the problem was NOT due to the servo motors and it didn't align with the campaign so I had to pay for the fix out of pocket. I have an early build 2013 and my AC was "cool" but not cold.
I'm posting my results here with the work order details in case its helpful for others. It looks like the part/fix are warrantied for 12 months as "part" #00263-00134 is simply a warranty that is passed along as a $16 cost. As rare as this problem of a faulty AC due to a worn O-Ring may be, it does happen.
If you have a good local shop that can do it for you, i'd recommend going that route as it would've likely cost about $250-$300 as the dealerships labor rates are astronomically high (they also charged $168 to diagnose the issue for a total out of pocket cost of $517 after taxes):
I was able to drive around town in a 2021 RX350 loaner with 3900 miles. I was super happy to get back into the GS. As nice as the updated infotainment system was, the RX just felt floaty and disconnected - a "boring" drive IMHO but I can certainly appreciate it for what it is: quiet, capable, comfortable and family friendly:
Update: I got my car back from the dealer and the AC is working well. In my case, unfortunately the problem was NOT due to the servo motors and it didn't align with the campaign so I had to pay for the fix out of pocket. I have an early build 2013 and my AC was "cool" but not cold.
I'm posting my results here with the work order details in case its helpful for others. It looks like the part/fix are warrantied for 12 months as "part" #00263-00134 is simply a warranty that is passed along as a $16 cost. As rare as this problem of a faulty AC due to a worn O-Ring may be, it does happen.
If you have a good local shop that can do it for you, i'd recommend going that route as it would've likely cost about $250-$300 as the dealerships labor rates are astronomically high (they also charged $168 to diagnose the issue for a total out of pocket cost of $517 after taxes):
It's interesting that the O-ring was listed as $10.16, but Toyota has the same part number at $5.08 List Price. Not that the $5 difference really makes much difference - except for making one wonder why it is twice the price at a Lexus dealership.
The O-ring doesn't actually wear out, but it deteriorates if refrigerant (which contains a lubricating/conditioning oil) is not circulated in the system on a regular basis, which in-turn can be the source of refrigerant leaking out of the closed-loop system. I presume if the vehicle is used in a cold winter climate, and especially if the vehicle is not garaged, the O-rings might deteriorate even quicker.
I'd say that you're probably right about an independent shop fixing it for only half the price that the Lexus dealership charged...and probably even less. I doubt there would be a 'diagnosis fee'. A quick check of the refrigerant tells the mechanic there is a leak, and little bit of dye tells the mechanic exactly where the leak is. A $4 O-ring replaces the failed one. Add ~$75-$100 worth of refrigerant and test the system and it's fixed. Total time ¾-1 hour. Parts: ~$100 for a Total Charge of ~$250 or less
hmm would this cause the vents to not be strong? ever since i picked the car up (8/2020 used) i've noticed the vents are pretty weak, even full blast face only on recycle, it's not that powerful compared to our 2011 is350.
it always bugged me but i wasn't going to bring this up at the dealership since it's out of warranty. (2015)
the air feels cold, its just a weak blower is what i have
This is what mine does as well in my 2016 IS. If I manually set the blower to max, the air source to recirculate, and the vents to face, I get 2 different outcomes:
With the temp set to a high number or "hi" the airflow through the face vents is very weak. The fan is blowing hard, but the air coming through is just not powerful. It actually seems to be coming out of the back at a higher velocity than from any of the front vents. And yes, the face bents are manually selected and there's nothing coming through the floor vents.
With the temp set to a low number or "lo" but all other settings the same, the airflow is very powerful and feels like what you'd expect at the highest fan setting.
I don't know what the deal is or what causes that, but it is an annoyance. That said, I bought the 2-day techstream subscription from Toyota TechInfo and ran the diagnosis per the TSIB and there were no codes after initialization, or after the computer-controlled grease smoothing / cleaning process. So it would appear that this is normal operation.
Got my letter, confirm that servo campaign is valid in Canada as well! Is there a separate servo motor for the rear passenger vent behind the middle arm rest? Testing this morning I noticed strong airflow with temp on HI and AC on, but with temp on LO and AC on, no airflow to rear vent, and just felt coolness "radiating" from the vent, as if there was an ice pack sitting right behind it. Sounds to me like the servo failure described in this thread but before I take it in and pay the diagnostic, just wanted to run it by you guys. Thanks
04-22-21, 01:51 PM
